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RE: Jason demoing a new 7 string Stephen Faulk guitar
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Doitsujin
Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
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 RE: Jason demoing a new 7 string Ste... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
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Jason that composition you uploaded is fabulous! The beginning is fantastic... It would be a perfect opening for any show. The shows I liked most of all I´ve seen so far, all started with tones and went on in a complex composition.. Great!
The sound is also brilliant Jason. Im so jealous on your sound..
When I compare to my camera recordings my guitar sounds more or less like your lesson recordings I think.
Could you tell us with a little details what you exactly did to get this dominant, clean, bright studio sound? I beg you! Please tell us..
I have 2 really good mics now and can record very clean but the sound of my guitar recordings is always missing the dominance and brightness. It always still sounds like such a kitchen-recording. And the sound of the treble stings is not bright and swinging.
Good studio-sound like in your record or any other professional recording is very different. There you dont have the impression of a "direct kitchen-recording". The sound is "THERE", everywhere and somehow round. I can not explain it better.
I heard some self made records here in the foro for the last couple of years that were very good "studio-quality", but nobody told how to achieve that. At least not understandable reproducible. Some people wrote that their guitars just sound like that and its only a clean record without effects ((EDIT-->Damn.. now I read some posts above and you also said that......... Now my whole post is useless.... :./ Well,.. I won´t delete it.. please go on reading. but when listening to your opening. The first couple of sounds can not be like that naturally. There is hall and brightness. Please don´t tell us that story....The character of these first tones is EXACTLY what Im talking about. This is it! Is it a secret?<--EDIT)). I dont believe that. I mean,.. Im not a bad player. I know how to and can hit the strings right and get good sound. and I have a good sounding guitar. I only can not record it that it doesnt sound "sterile-amateur like". I´m not talking about playing abilities now, Im talking only about the sound. Also worse playing can be recorded perfectly.
Another good example that you dont tell me Im dreaming is Santiago Lara. You know his CD? The sound is as I described above. Brilliant, full, round, shining. He visited my town this year and I took a workshop. His natural sound with the same guitar is completely different. I have some recordings and could give you a good comparison as example. Somebody put a link here some days ago where Santiago plays his vals-buleris for a TV-show unplugged. There you have more or less his natural sound Than listen to his CD that is recorded with the same guitar. Its a difference like day and night and I believe only tiny changes made it so brilliant. But which ones and how? There is a reason for the being of professional sound engineers..... They know how to do. ---eh. Im writing 10 pages... sorry for that.
And comparing i.e. your camera-recordings with your studio records that drop in from time to time. There is a huuuge difference. You can do excellent quality recordings. It must be definitely done by processing the record.
But what do we have to do? Which tools do you use? i.e. 2 mics? Which position? Recording stereo and moving one of the tracks a millisecond to get a fuller sound? A compressor or maximizer? Ad what do you exactly change? Some hall-effect? But how to get it sound not cheap? And which program do you use? cubase?
Jason... could you help us with sharing you knowledge in this field? I have the feeling that I could do many great things on the guitar..but I am not able to record them in good quality. My recording sound is even worser than my live sound. I can not solve this problem..I need help and can not find any resource in the net about how to record "flamenco-guitar-sound". There is no good data available. Only some very rough, general explanations without examples. Its useless to know what the i.e. hall or maximizer does in cubase if we don´t know "how" to use it for recording flamenco-guitar.
I would also pay you for a detailed workshop in "recording and procession professional studio-sound". i.e. with a complete example like your composition you just uploaded form the hardware settings like mics and so on through the recording process, working on details with software to the final result with brilliant studio-sound.
Please Jason, your explenations about playing, composing, performing etc. were always brilliant and pathbreaking, could you also help us with big topic? It is a closed book for me.
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Date Oct. 24 2009 0:30:52
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JasonMcGuire
Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
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RE: Jason demoing a new 7 string Ste... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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The "Round Midnight" is a Rode Nt4 Stereo Microphone about 1 foot from the guitar, into a PreSonus FireStation (An old obsolete FireWire Audio Interface). The 2 Preamps in those units are great. I still use them quite a bit. A little low cut at around 60hz and a Limiter on the output. Recorded in the living room. A touch of "Platinum Verb" and thats it really. I use Logic. The biggest issue is always mic placement and room acoustics. Don't make the room too dead, but it can't be to ambient either.
The Solea Video on the 7 String is an Oktava MK-012 mic that was modified by Michael Joly at Oktavamod.com into a cheap behringer mixer. The mic was 5 feet away. There is a tiny bit of reverb. That is being fed directly into the built in audio input of my trust old Power Mac G5. There is just a tiny bit of mids scooped out to make up for the distance. The further away from the mic the more mids will be dominant.
Mic placement is important Doit, I usually point the mic at the 19th fret, not the sound hole. It gets too muddy if you do that. Fresh strings are going to sound bright so thats usually key to getting a good recording. I don't use compressors too much on flamenco guitar. I like the dynamics the way they are. If I need to bring the guitar out front in a dense mix then I use a limiter. I use a MulitBand Compressor on the output too. and I follow that with a limiter. The MultiBand Compressor I like best is UA's "Precision MulitBand" and also Their "Precision Limiter", those are both great tools. NOT CHEAP.
The best thing I can tell you to do is to start learning about frequencies. How to identify them by the sound. Play something in your recording app and use an EQ to "sweep" through the frequencies and listen for changes. Sweep with a narrow boost and also a narrow cut...... narrow but not a "notch". Listen to what happens and make mental notes about how you could use that in the future. WHen you hear stuff later that needs help you will start to know exactly what needs to be done to correct the EQ. There are problem areas in the audio spectrum that cause problems a lot. 250hz often needs to be pulled out a bit..... 2khz is always harsh on guitars, 8khz is also nasty. Often a wide dip in the mids can sweeten things nicely, just don't dip too much. No more that 5db.
If your sound needs radical adjustments after recording, then chances are you need to place mics better or need to deal with room acoustics.
There isn't really any secrets. You just have to learn to listen close. Its hard to record yourself because those adjustments have to be made in headphones and headphones are bad for hearing subtle nuances.
Either of the 2 mics I named above will make great recordings especially The Michael Joly modded Oktava mics. Those are great. Rode NT4 is a good mic too. Stereo is best for recording guitar in my opinion, but mono can sound great too. You can also fake stereo with one mic and run it through a convolution type room reverb sample that was original miced in stereo. Altiverb is great for that. Run a dry mono guitar through Altiverb set with a nice studio room, not too big and it sounds like you recorded in stereo.
Take some audio classes. They are fun and you will learn a lot.
J
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Date Oct. 24 2009 2:00:07
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ToddK
Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
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RE: Jason demoing a new 7 string Ste... (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
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EDIT!!!!!!
Ive made you a video tutorial Doit. I made a new thread called "Recording Tutorial" here in the General Discusion section. Go check it out!!!
Feel free of course to read my advice below too. But the video should clear things up.
I think the best way to your solution Doit, is to tell us EXACTLY =
What type of mics are you using? What type? What brand?
Where do you place the mics? How far exactly from the guitar? Be specific.
What are you pluggin them into exactly? Be specific.
This is THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION! (next to your actuall playing and your guitar)
What room are you recording in? Is it small? Medium? Big?
Do the walls have any absorbent material on them? Is the floor made of wood or is it carpeted?
I have a feeling i already know the answers to these questions, so im going to give you what i think your answer is.
You are probably saying "Ah, the room doesnt matter THAT much", Well, im telling you dude, just bare with me, and try to trust me, and just listen.
If you're recording in a small to medium, rectangular dry walled room , with no treatment on the walls, no matter what gear you buy, it will always sound like
a "KITCHEN/Amateur recording.
This is the reason your not getting that "Right in front of your face" sound you're looking for. The ringing of the room is blurrying and clouding the sound. You may not hear it obviously in the room when you're playing, but condensor mics pick that ringing BIGTIME!! That is your problem, trust me.
The type of reverb, compression, or eq is NOTHING compared to all these things
i just asked you.
Reverb is easy. Pick a preset, and add it in to your taste. For EQ, maybe take some mids out, and add a bit of bass. For compression, try a "guitar" preset, and then play with the "Threshold" knob till it sounds like what you're looking for.
But im telling you, i'll bet 90% of your problem is the room you're recording in is too ringy and boxy sounding, and/or you dont have the mics in the right spot.
Treat your room!!!!!!! Hang foam, carpet, or any type of absorbent material on the walls and ceiling. Put the mics at level height with the guitar, and put them about 1 foot in front of you. Dont aim them at the soundhole. Aim them at the neck and bridge.
Once you do this, when you reach for the reverb, and EQ, etc... you will have a whole new expirience All of these things will sound a thousand percent better, and much more like you expect them to.
If you do all these things, i garantee you , you will get the sound you're looking for.
Or of course, feel free to just come over to my house. 
_____________________________
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Date Oct. 25 2009 0:09:31
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I will check some other positions in my room... 