micing up my guitar for dance class

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at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

micing up my guitar for dance class

hey everyone,
i need an amp/pa system for dance class. the class is LOUD and im going to bust a few veins in my forehead if i try to keep up.

however, i dont want to spend a lot of money. so im thinking about buying a used keyboard amp and just plugging my mic into it. i kinda want something versatile so i can use it with my electric guitar or bass too (in case i ever touch them again).

is this a bad idea? what do you guys recommend?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2009 20:14:32

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

You need amplification, playing for a class, with more then 3 dancers, gets very loud. The annoying part is they always seem to make noise with their feet when I play ...

I use a simple Yamaha powered speaker, and plug an audio technica lapel mic to it, but what you suggest sounds good to me too, you don't need anything fancy, versatile is more important.

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2009 22:10:05

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

an acoustic guitar amp like a trace elliot usually reliable. AER makes great stuff too

mic it up with an sm57 or a beta 57 (i like the beta, a little crisper) good to go

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2009 22:24:22

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HemeolaMan

an acoustic guitar amp like a trace elliot usually reliable. AER makes great stuff too

mic it up with an sm57 or a beta 57 (i like the beta, a little crisper) good to go

just checking, what's the difference between playing a classical/acoustic/flamenco guitar thriught an acoustic amp and an
amp for an electric guitar like a solid state fender/vox/peavey?

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 5:10:56

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

fender marshall vox etc are not designed to represent the types of sound that acoustic guitars produce.

Fenders etc take a weak electrical signal from a coil and a magnet (a pickup) that sounds very little like an acoustic guitar and amplify it with reckless abandon.

acoustic amps are designed to take either mics or piezo pickups so they have balanced inputs, will hum less if you run a mic thru it and represent a wider frequency range which more realiztically captures the sound of an acoustic.

In other words, if you look at a frequency response chart for an acoustic amp it would be much flatter than an electric guitar amp.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 7:43:13

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

The annoying part is they always seem to make noise with their feet when I play ...

lol

quote:

I use a simple Yamaha powered speaker, and plug an audio technica lapel mic to it, but what you suggest sounds good to me too, you don't need anything fancy, versatile is more important.

plus, i dont want to lug around too much equipment. do you know what kind of speaker it is?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 20:22:45

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

an acoustic guitar amp like a trace elliot usually reliable. AER makes great stuff too

mic it up with an sm57 or a beta 57 (i like the beta, a little crisper) good to go

ALL those things are expensive, man! i'm looking for more of a ghetto fix, that's still decent.

i could probably afford those things if i still had my big marshall amp that my friend sold behind my back when i let him borrow it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 20:26:35

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

btw, here are some of the things i have my eyes on.
the nice about about the keyboard amp is that i can probably play my electric and bass through it too. but it's been years since i touched them so maybe i'm better off buying something that is more suited for acoustic instruments.

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/1413493210.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/1406484870.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/1414717389.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 21:06:32

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

plus, i dont want to lug around too much equipment. do you know what kind of speaker it is?

I use this mic with this speaker. Got the speaker for $300 and the mic for $120 at Guitar Center. I'm sure though you can get cheaper powered speakers, or used. I saw they show up often on craigslist. The only thing I don't like about this speaker is it doesn't give phantom power. The things you are looking at would probably work just as well.

The advantage of using a lapel mic, vs a regular mic, is that you don't need a mic stand. Less to carry and quicker to setup.

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2009 21:58:13

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

You could use a Line6 POD and set it to true-bypass and hook it up on the normal stereo installation in your dance school.

Those POD are very cheap secondhand.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 6:15:29

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

I use this mic with this speaker. Got the speaker for $300 and the mic for $120 at Guitar Center. I'm sure though you can get cheaper powered speakers, or used. I saw they show up often on craigslist. The only thing I don't like about this speaker is it doesn't give phantom power. The things you are looking at would probably work just as well.

The advantage of using a lapel mic, vs a regular mic, is that you don't need a mic stand. Less to carry and quicker to setup.

they looks like the perfect set up. very portable and i bet it sounds nice too.

quote:

You could use a Line6 POD and set it to true-bypass and hook it up on the normal stereo installation in your dance school.

Those POD are very cheap secondhand.

now that is even more portable. would those pod things work with mics and acoustic instruments though?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 19:53:00

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

I use a Roland Micro Cube amp. It only has a 4.5inch speaker, and doesnt weigh very much. Is really made for practicing electric guitars but It does have a Mic-input mode that works well. On about 75% volume I can accompany 5 dancers and still hear myself. Also- no feedback issues at that level of output too. I use a Shure SM57 mic. FYI- The product descriptions online always mention that it can run on batteries- it really does come with a power adapter to plug in the wall.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 2:50:56

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to Chiste de Gales)

quote:

I use a Roland Micro Cube amp.

That looks nice. That with an AT pro 70 lapel mic and I'd say you can't get more mobile.

BTW, I found that most of the time hooking up to the sound system of the studio doesn't work well because of feedback, can't position myself and the speakers independently

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 3:55:12

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to Chiste de Gales)

quote:

On about 75% volume I can accompany 5 dancers and still hear myself.

what about 15 vicious dancers

the teacher was playing a compas track through the pa system and it had to be loud enough for the dancers that it was hurting my ears.

quote:

BTW, I found that most of the time hooking up to the sound system of the studio doesn't work well because of feedback, can't position myself and the speakers independently

thanks for the tip. i'd be nervous to blow the speakers or something anyways.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 13:27:22

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

You are going to buy the equipment for the danceclass? You wanna earn money there right? So, tell them what they need to buy for upgrading their school to allwow live music. Its not your job...

If I would have to buy the machines for the laboratory Im working in to be able to do my experiments... I wouldn´t earn aything for the next 10 years....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 22:18:02

Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

i could probably afford those things if i still had my big marshall amp that my friend sold behind my back when i let him borrow it.

Whaaaaaaat???

and are you still friends???

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 1:26:33

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to Stu)

quote:

quote:

i could probably afford those things if i still had my big marshall amp that my friend sold behind my back when i let him borrow it.

Whaaaaaaat???

and are you still friends???

Hey, some friend you got Anthony!
With friends like that who needs enemies!

You know, everytime I see this header on Today's Posts, I keep seeing this image of a guy filling his guitar up with white mice for a laugh to scare the dancers in the class. .

I think it's normally spelt "miking"

But then again, that sort of looks like "milking"...

Difficult word.

"Mice Me Up"....as in the Rolling Stones number. LOL!

(Don't bother with me...I'm sure there's a problem in my brain somewhere.

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 3:40:42

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

You are going to buy the equipment for the danceclass? You wanna earn money there right? So, tell them what they need to buy for upgrading their school to allwow live music. Its not your job...

well, i'm not even getting paid for it. i feel like the teacher is doing me a favor by letting play and learn. should i be getting paid even though i'm amateur?

quote:

Whaaaaaaat???

and are you still friends???

i will be until i can steal his amp and microphones and effect pedals, etc. then im gone.

quote:

You know, everytime I see this header on Today's Posts, I keep seeing this image of a guy filling his guitar up with white mice for a laugh to scare the dancers in the class. .

I think it's normally spelt "miking"

yeah, i couldn't decide which one was correct. i'm not attaching a mouse to my microphone stand but i'm not attaching a guy named mike either. darn weird english language anomalies.

anyways, i bought that peavey keyboard amp. it's 60 watts. playing at the place where i bought, it sounded okay loud but when i brought it home, it sounded kinda quiet and tame. i hope it'll work for dance class.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 10:24:38

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

A dance class with 15 dancers should have its own sound system.
Jeez- the class I play at only has 5 to 6 dancers and even they have
a PA setup with a microphone. I prefer my own gear though.

If the noise hurts your ears, you should seriously consider earplugs.
No good can come from a musician with hearing loss.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 11:22:47

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

well, i'm not even getting paid for it. i feel like the teacher is doing me a favor by letting play and learn. should i be getting paid even though i'm amateur?

I think you are right Anthony. I don't ask for money for the class I play for because I am learning how to accompany. I'm getting as much benefit as the dancers. Perhaps more so, because they can use CDs to learn their steps. I won't ask for or accept payment until I have a lot more experience.

A friend of mine who plays for a class gets some money towards expenses (petrol money really), but mostly only the professionals actually get paid.

quote:

A dance class with 15 dancers should have its own sound system.

Here in the UK only the biggest schools will have a sound system set up. Many classes here don't use proper studios, only community halls, and the guitarist has to take the sound system. I have an AER compact 60. It was expensive, but it should last, and if I decide I no longer want to use it, I can sell it on ebay - they seem to hold their value.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 12:09:39

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1897
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

i've been playing for a class for over 3 years, around 15 people with loud feet...never used any kind of amplification, which at first was really harsh on my nails, but now they've strengthened considerably and it's no problem...much depends on the acoustics of the room and your hand dynamics...i had to learn to play loud and not break my nails and while it can hurt sometimes, playing like this helps a lot with right hand stamina...
so no worries, you can adapt :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 13:51:59

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to Chiste de Gales)

they have a stereo system there but i don't remember seeing any line in inputs.

quote:

If the noise hurts your ears, you should seriously consider earplugs.
No good can come from a musician with hearing loss.

absolutely. i'm bringing ear plugs next time or at least sitting across the room away from the speaker

quote:

A friend of mine who plays for a class gets some money towards expenses (petrol money really), but mostly only the professionals actually get paid.

that'd be nice to get some gas money. and maybe some money for the stress i have to endure for driving through heavy traffic. one day i'd like to get paid but for now, i feel like i'm only learning.

quote:

i've been playing for a class for over 3 years, around 15 people with loud feet...never used any kind of amplification

i thought i could handle them because for the other class i'm in, i play for around 10 people. but this class, the acoustics are just so different. i broke THREE nails trying to keep up with only 3 dancers and the teacher. and i never break nails!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 16:54:03

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to at_leo_87)

hmmm just wondering how did the old dudes prior to PA systems use to play for dancers? has guitarists got 'weak' over the years?

just wondering whether it is benificial to play without amplification?
I'm no where near the stage of playing for dancers or anyone, hahah but just wondering aloud.

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 16:56:41

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

hmmm just wondering how did the old dudes prior to PA systems use to play for dancers? has guitarists got 'weak' over the years?

Just like in this example: 1 dancer, 4 guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 19:35:38

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: micing up my guitar for dance class (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

just wondering whether it is benificial to play without amplification?
I'm no where near the stage of playing for dancers or anyone, hahah but just wondering aloud.

i dont know if its beneficial but i do it without...we have amplification but i am always to lazy to set it up...i prefer softer natural sound then loud metallic or whatever if you dont use the really good equipment...it alaways ends up sounding unlike like a flamenco guitar..expecially on rithm..too metalic or too thick etc..

they adjust to you and listen harder and dont stomp during falsetas and you adjust to them
last night there were about 25 students in class..and i soposse it is good practice for projection, dynamics and louder rasqueado..you will never be as loud as them all the time but the most important beats to hear for them are the beats that they are not dancing or marking in, the ones in between whatever they are doing...and since you dont have to compete with them for those sounds those are quiet thats where you come in and help them be right for the beats they are doing and if you have a sencitive to music teacher who tells them to keep the ear on you and not to stomp during falsetas and to be aware of dynamics it should be just fine

its a perfect oportunity for them and you to practice on dynamics, listening and be sencitive to the music and not stomp at the same level all the way through

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2009 20:47:19