mexican vs mediteranean cypress

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daffey

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: Los Angeles, California

mexican vs mediteranean cypress

Greetings All,
QUick question. For those who are familiar. does anyone one know the tonal differences between a blanca made with mexican cypress vs one made with mediteranean cypress. Any info would be greatly appreciated

Muchas Gracias
Daffey ~

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 12:33:27

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Daffey,
In your other post you mentioned that you were looking at a Salvador Castillo or A Navarro. I don't know whether the back and sides made in 2 different types of Cypress would make a significant difference, but I do know that Salvador told me that he prefers the mediteranean cypress. So if he is making your guitar, I would go with what he thinks makes the better guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 13:39:11

daffey

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: Los Angeles, California

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to chapman_g)

yeah ~
i went with the castillo. considering cost difference ($400) tonally speaking. i am just curious

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 13:52:30

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Its more in the hand of the builder and also the quality of the specific wood.

I just finished a 2A blanca with Canadian Cypress (Alaskan yellow cedar) The guitar is very responsive, and I cant really tell you a tonal difference.
You can hear it here:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=117168&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

I have never built built with Mex cypress, but if its well quatered with narrow grains and no spongy parts, I cant see why it shouldnt work just fine.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 0:53:29

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Thats an interesting question.

Here's my question to you:

Does it matter?

Honestly, you are buying a great guitar one way or the other. the prestige of "spanish" cypress is an illusion IMHO. None of it comes from spain anymore. So, If you are to be true to the spirit of the early flamenco guitars, use the cheapest most abundant wood. They happened to be in spain, so it was spanish cypress. Now, mexican cypress is more readily available. I can't help but wonder if it would be more authentic to engage in the spirit of the early flamenco guitars rather than the materials they were made of... lol

All in all, the differences would be so minute that I ask you, is it worth the difference in price to you?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 8:21:52

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to HemeolaMan)

I have owned guitars with Alaskan cypress (yellow cedar) Monterey cypress (Mexican cypress) and Mediterranean cypress. I don't imagine that there is much, if any difference in in sound between them. I would think that difference in sound will come more from the top and what each luthier does with that top, than what the back and sides are constructed with.

However, Mediterranean cypress is the only one that has that delicious aroma.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 9:12:24

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to ngiorgio)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ngiorgio

I have owned guitars with Alaskan cypress (yellow cedar) Monterey cypress (Mexican cypress) and Mediterranean cypress. I don't imagine that there is much, if any difference in in sound between them. I would think that difference in sound will come more from the top and what each luthier does with that top, than what the back and sides are constructed with.

However, Mediterranean cypress is the only one that has that delicious aroma.

Not entirely true I'm afraid. Cypress smells like cypress whether it's from Mexico, Monterey, Spain or anywhere else. Alaskan Yellow Cedar is a different wood. Most of that "delicious smell" you mention is really from the Spanish Cedar used in the neck. That's the sweet, spicey aroma you get when you put your nose into the sound hole. Of course, cypress does have a distinctive somewhat spicey smell but it's much more delicate than the Spanish Cedar. After building guitars for a few years many people learn to dislike the Spanish Cedar smell (and taste). I wear a respirator when I mill it since if you don't it takes some time to get the nasty taste out of your mouth and nose. It takes all the pleasure out of a nice red wine with dinner

.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 16:37:17

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Another good reason for wearing the dust mask is that Cedar (cedrella) is very bad for the lungs. I try to wear a dust mask every time I produce fine dust. And I have an air cleaner running.

I can smell the cypress in the guitars, and with a soundport its very present. I know its the cypress I smell, Because I just finished two guitars with ports, one with med. cypress and another with CDN cypress, both with cedar necks and they smell very different.
Another thing is that the cypress smell almost disappears with time.

Untill now, I have only made 2 guitars with CDN cypress, but both have turned out VERY well. Both also have a top quality Euro spruce top.
Its not enough to have a clear idea about sound qualities etc, but I´m pretty sure that the wood works very well. Also another thing is that the quality of the wood is very high. Very narrow grain and 100% quatersawn.

Problems with cypress is that in cheaper grades it has wide grain, is not to well sawn and has parts which are "mushy". These pieces I dont like at all they are floppy to touch.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 0:02:15

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

i would have to agree with ngiorgio--mediteranean cypress does have that great aroma and is very detectable. i have a lot scraps of mediteranean cypress and that aroma is the same as when i stick my nose into the sound hole. true, there is cedar aroma but the cypress aroma is very detectable--especially after a few humid days--and doing a side by side aroma test (sound hole vs. scrap) confirms the aroma.

one thing i have noticed is that inexpensive flamenco guitars built with cypress do not have that cypress aroma that expensive flamenco guitars have. i suspect they use a non-mediteranean cypress.

one good test: sniff a cordoba flamenco guitar and sniff a ramirez, green or other such guitar--there is a big difference in the aroma.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 9:54:25

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Untill now, I have only made 2 guitars with CDN cypress, but both have turned out VERY well. Both also have a top quality Euro spruce top.

I assume mine (the star of "El Guitarrero") is one of those. Out of interest, how do you rank that particular guitar in terms of 1A, 2A etc.? That stuff always confuses me. What makes a 1A Anders, for example?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 11:02:03

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

i would have to agree with ngiorgio--mediteranean cypress does have that great aroma and is very detectable.

I never said that cypress didn't have a distinctive smell. I'm quite familiar with it after 40 years of guitar making. The fact remains that the most agressive aroma from a properly made guitar is the Spanish Cedar in the neck. Whether anyone can detect the more delicate cypress smell is irrelevant to me. I personally don't like it or the Spanish Cedar aroma. I prefer the smell of a good red wine.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 16:15:59

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Being the ever-inquisitive Google scholar that I y'am, I decided to look up Mexican Cypress and this is one of the first images that popped up:

Holy shinoli that sucker is ginormous! No wonder the Mexican variety costs so much less, you could replicate a few dozen Noah's Arks just from this tree alone.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 18:27:55

daffey

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: Los Angeles, California

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Greetings gents,
check these out ~ what do you guys think?

Spanish Cypress
http://www.youtube.com/user/guitarrascastillo#p/a/u/1/5tksP0Gce6U

OR

Mexican Cypress

ALL your suggestions and opinions would GREATLY be appreciated.

Muchas Gracias
Daffeyy ~

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 19:37:18

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

They both sound good. Can't go wrong with either one.

He is also a pretty good player.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2009 8:41:56

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to daffey)

Hy all

There has been told a lot already about this topic.

I totally agree with Anders that the builder is always more important than the wood. Nevetheless i've learned that wood is not unimportant allthough the quality of the wood for the soundboard is much more critical than the wood for backs and sides.
In regards to the cypress question i've purchased some monterrey cypress from Australia and the stuff was way too fast grown for my quality measurements. Besides of the rather bad appearance of the wood it also doesn't smells good.
Luckily i didn't purchased a larger quantity of it. I wouldn't buy it anymore and even less would i build with it.
O.k. maybe i had bad luck and what i have purchased was not of first quality but i have lost my interest in monterrey cypress. I prefere to stay with cypress purchased from a turkish sawmill (not Octopus). I'm happy with the quality they sell and it definitely makes good looking, sounding and smelling guitars.

best regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2009 11:18:57

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: mexican vs mediteranean cypress (in reply to Armando)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando

Hy all

In regards to the cypress question i've purchased some monterrey cypress from Australia and the stuff was way too fast grown for my quality measurements. Besides of the rather bad appearance of the wood it also doesn't smells good.

Armando,
The only Monterey Cypress I've used was from Monterey, California. It was virtually indistinguishable from Mediterranean Cypress. As I recall I bought 20 sets. When I decided to buy some more the price had gone up and it was more expensive than Spanish Cypress so the original sets were all I ever had. You're smart to buy the Turkish cypress. What they sell appears to be very good quality for the price although I haven't used any of it yet since the sets I have need a couple more years of aging.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2009 12:02:12