The Darker Side of the Internet.

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

The Darker Side of the Internet.

Hi Folks,

After watching a news programme, and as an engineer, I was sort of interested in what made the AK47 still so popular more than 60 years later, despite manufacturing innovations and technology.

The results were sick to say the least...

Couldn't believe it.

There are folk out there that value weapons as much as we value guitars.

Sheesh!

What can you say or think to that?

Has much changed really since 60 years ago?

Except that it's the new "rock & roll"....

Sick world.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 11:55:07

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

There are folk out there that value weapons as much as we value guitars.

.... disturbing

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 12:24:56

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to gj Michelob)

Two points ron,

a gun is simply a weapon, but its not the weapon that kills people, people kill people. a gun is simply a tool like any other, personally i prefer using them for hunting wild game. if i go on a hunting trip the highlands would be my destination of choice.

point two, the ak47 is a pretty easy weapon to get, its composition is pretty hardy, easily repairable and replaceable. its a good workhorse gun.

but the flip side to this means its an easier gun to obtain and is the weapon of choice for millitias, revolutionaries, resistance fighters and the modern terrorist.
furthmore, it is western gun manufacturers which still fuel the terror the ak47 inflicts because they supply repair parts, produce the required ammo and in some cases make replicas of the original.

i blame the irresponsible behaviour of the western governments and arms suppliers for alot of the suffering and war which goes on in the 3rd world.
scumbags like, cheney, rumsfield and bush have shares in arms companies and millitary suppliers.

last point, that guy in the first vid was off his nutt, when a barrell gets hot like that from too much firing it can cause the barrell to crack and allow hot gases from the bullets firing to come back and burn or injure the body, either that or the idiot put either too much gun oil on the body or in the barrell and it caught fire; any way this guy like so many others is a prime example of how not to use a gun nor the behaviour of using them.

its like using a 500 yr old samurai sword to chop wood.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 12:46:26

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

The Russians and Chinese have made well over 100 million copies of the AK since it was accepted into service in 1947 so there isn't much need for spare parts. Many of these weapons were stored in underground facilities for decades along with ammunition.

A lot of this stuff ended up on the open market after the fall of the Soviet gov. It was one of the few things these second world countries had to sell to make a quick buck. Since the service life of a modern firearm is approximately 400 years I wouldn't expect the supply of these weapons to run out any time soon.

The only reason US businesses make "spare parts" for the AK is to meet a legal requirement--AKs imported into the US after a certain date are only legal if a specified number of parts are US made. And guess who is responsible for finding a way around the current laws which prohibit importation of these weapons into the US? Attorneys!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 13:47:11

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

Wasn't the AK47 a weapon that could be used in any situation? Like extreme cold, desert like enviroments, and still kept doin his job (if you may call it that).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2009 21:23:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGkRKT0Q-L4

its amazing to me that guns are still allowed to be owned by non security, army, police .......all this "freedom" and "right to bare arms" is killing alot of people ..its more dangerous and scarey

i still cant figure out the argument..i need guns to defend myself ? ...from whom ?

i always thought all the high school shootings would have been reason enough and argument enough that its a stupid idea...and that noone in the private sector needs a gun...if you dont have a gun and he dosent have a gun u can just punch eachother in the head but atleast youl be around...and theres no chance of your kid taking it to school and using it on bullies

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 2:13:37

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Florian)

The first time I ever tried out a gun was in the US.

A friend and his brother had set up a little target range and a bunch of us each had a go. Three shots each.
It was a Colt 45 or something....it looked like one of those cowboy guns.

Anyway, I had my go and wildly missed the target and turned around with the gun still in my hand to hand it to the next person.

Everybody dived for cover and suddenly everyone had vanished.

Then suddenly a head popped up and said in a clear, but nervous voice, "Ron...hold the gun down your side with your arm extended and pointing towards the ground....I'm going to crawl round the back of you and take the gun off you... Don't hand it to me or turn around...just relax your grip and let me take it out of your hand."
After he got it and put the safety on, he said "Wow, Ron...never point a gun anywhere other than the ground or a target. That thing's on a hair trigger."

He later told me that about 10 kids a month or something were killed in gun accidents.

Scary.

(I bet that's the last time he'll ever give a European a gun.

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 3:12:06

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to kozz)

If I see it correctly this is not an AK47 but a FN Fal rifle. ( From Belgium)

A AK47 is very good for bad things as kozz said, it can be used in all extreme situations.

Also it is very nice ( sarcastic ), that you can use all other parst from the rifle from your dead colleges.
So if you have 10 old ones that are broken, you can make one new one out of it...........

It is a wonderful world...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 3:14:23

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Anyway, I had my go and wildly missed the target and turned around with the gun still in my hand to hand it to the next person.

Everybody dived for cover and suddenly everyone had vanished.

Then suddenly a head popped up and said in a clear, but nervous voice, "Ron...hold the gun down your side with your arm extended and pointing towards the ground....I'm going to crawl round the back of you and take the gun off you... Don't hand it to me or turn around...just relax your grip and let me take it out of your hand."
After he got it and put the safety on, he said "Wow, Ron...never point a gun anywhere other than the ground or a target. That thing's on a hair trigger."

sounds like something i would do...infact i think i did it..i had never fired a gun and we once went rabbit hunting, i was curious..on a farm (they kill the vegetation) and i was trying to aim..following the rabbit looking through the gun targetting thinggy...i missed aabout 7 times while the rabbit keeped running and it ran between where i was and my friends...with me following it ...they dived ...screaamed, jumped up and down..saying "dont shhooot!!

"....

so i never did get the rabbit...but we defenetly shouldnt have had acces to guns

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 3:33:34

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to henrym3483)

quote:

any way this guy like so many others is a prime example of how not to use a gun nor the behaviour of using them.

I bet all the beetles and insects in that pile of rubbish were running around and shouting..

"Incoming!! ...... Jeez, that guy really HATES us! "

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 5:48:18

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

guys, guys, guys....
we all know guns don't kill people. you guys need to educate yourself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 9:33:49

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
i still cant figure out the argument..i need guns to defend myself ? ...from whom ?

From everyone who has exercised their right to bear arms, of course!

Keeps the gun economy going.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 12:10:34

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

everyone who has exercised their right to bear arms, of course!

HAHAHA good one

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 13:44:20

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

their right to bear arms

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_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2009 13:51:47

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

If I buy 10 Kalaschnikows....would I get one for free?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 3:27:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

If I buy 10 Kalaschnikows....would I get one for free?

Doit,

I think if you buy 10 AK47s in Germany, you'll get 10 years in prison, free at the taxpayers expense.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 4:18:57

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

quote:

everyone who has exercised their right to bear arms, of course!

HAHAHA good one

This is tragic, but I'm afraid it provides anecdotal support for my case.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13514196

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2009 7:51:15

johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

This guy is loose in my neck of the woods right now.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21231058/detail.html

_____________________________

Too much is not enough!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2009 2:05:51

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to henrym3483)

quote:

a gun is simply a weapon, but its not the weapon that kills people, people kill people.

This old phrase doesnt wash I'm afraid.... I think the gun plays a fairly big role.

so someone wants to kill someone else..... no gun??? ok you strangle them or bludgeon them to death, takes a lot of energy and a struggle, and its rather personal. you gotta really wanna do it.

with an AK you simply have to flex the muscle in your index finger and hey if you point it at a big enough crowd you can probably kill a dozen or more...so I'd say the gun kills people more efficiently.

how far would Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold of Columbine fame have got if they'd only been armed with baseball bats????

besides what about a gun that gets knocked or dropped and discharges its rounds into some unsuspecting kid or the like....id say that gun just killed someone!

quote:

a gun is simply a tool like any other

Like any other?????? yeah i have one im my tool box right next to my spanners!

yeah a tool whos sole purpose is killing no??

I dont see people banging in nails with thier mp5s

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 1:39:06

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Stu)

quote:

ok you strangle them or bludgeon them to death

Or use a Banana?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 1:49:59

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

Well,
I remember the Duende conversation....you could use a guitar...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 5:00:06

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Or use a Banana?

cheers,

Ron

hahah great stuff ron!

Eric Idles trousers are just brilliant!!!

and Palins line......"Hes completely dead!!!"

im in tears here!
thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 16:35:16

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Stu)

quote:

with an AK you simply have to flex the muscle in your index finger and hey if you point it at a big enough crowd you can probably kill a dozen or more...so I'd say the gun kills people more efficiently.

The ak47 does nothing when its left on the ground or lying in a gun cabinet, it takes either an idiot or a muderous scumbag to take it out, put the ammo in, take the safety off the gun, find the target, aim it at the target and then pull the trigger. so in this equation it takes 5 steps by a human to prepare, load,take the safety off, target and shoot.

if the person left it there, the ak47 would still be in the cabinet, it takes a human to kill with it. so as i said, people kill people.

quote:

how far would Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold of Columbine fame have got if they'd only been armed with baseball bats????

the methods and the means varied but if the kids wanted to poison the people in there with sarin gas or mustard gas they could have. its the foolish availabilty of guns in the USA that allows those kind of horrors to occur. and to frank i find the NRA to be a sickening organisation to hold a gun ralleigh in colombine the week after the shootings, it showed very poor taste and lack of sympathy.

quote:

besides what about a gun that gets knocked or dropped and discharges its rounds into some unsuspecting kid or the like....id say that gun just killed someone!

i would blame the negligent and reckless actions of the owner of the gun, what if it was a disc saw powered up, and fell and dismembered limbs, would this be any better? as i said the gun is a tool like the disc saw.

quote:

Like any other?????? yeah i have one im my tool box right next to my spanners!

yeah a tool whos sole purpose is killing no??

I dont see people banging in nails with thier mp5s

its a tool because its a creation of mans own hand to complete a task, like your spanner to tighten a nut or pliers to take out a nail, you'd hardly expect to do it with your bare fingers.

thats why man invented tools to make his work easier. the purpose for which you use the tool is entirely up to the user at the end of the day, whether you use it to Hunt, protect the innocent or murder your fellow man. and the results of its use rest on the users conscience.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 17:57:51

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

The most recent shooting was on Oct. 4. Police said Williams shot another Hamtramck man in the leg with his AK-47.

When the man went down to the ground, Williams allegedly shot the man twice more in the legs.

The victim told police that Williams then pointed the assault riffle at his chest and said, "Now it's time to die," and pulled the trigger, but the gun misfired.

The man was transported to an area hospital. He is expected to be OK.

hmm i feel bad for the AK-47 suppliers...this is really bad publicity for them

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 18:01:04

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Stu)

quote:

I dont see people banging in nails with thier mp5s

Yeah but what about the nail GUN

i am kidding actualy i agree with you compleatly

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2009 18:03:59

johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

If he had shot me like that--he would be dead right now.

_____________________________

Too much is not enough!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 4:24:42

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to henrym3483)

I agree with Henry. And (to inject a touch of music into this off-topic thread) there's a very good song by the Filipino guitarist-poet Joey Ayala on this theme. Luckily I found the words online, so you are spared my rough-translation-of-the bits-I-can-remember version

Ikaw na May Baril (You who have a Gun)
by Joey Ayala

ikaw na may baril (you, who have a gun)
mabigat ang yong pasanin (you carry a heavy burden)
pagpisil mo ng gatilyo (when you pull the trigger)
ilang buhay ang kikitilin (how many lives will you take?)
ilang anak ang iiyak (how many children will cry?)
o di kaya'y di maisisilang (or won't be born?)
pagpisil mo ng gatilyo (when you pull the trigger)
isip-isipin mo lang (think about it)

ang balang tingga (the lead bullet)
ay walang mata (doesn't have eyes)
kung saan ka nakaturo (wherever you aim)
doon siya pupunta (is where it goes)

kaya ikaw na may baril (you, who have a gun)
tiyakin mo ang iyong layunin (clarify your intent)
pagpisil mo ng gatilyo (when you pull the trigger)
ano ang nais mong abutin (what do you wish to achieve?)
ikaw ba'y tagapagligtas (are you a savior?)
o di kaya'y isa lamang mandarahas (or do you just crave violence?)
pagpisil mo ng gatilyo (when you pull the trigger)
isip-isipin mo lang (think about it)

ang balang tingga (the lead bullet)
ay walang mata (doesn't have eyes)
kung saan ka nakaturo (wherever you aim)
doon siya pupunta (is where it goes)

(here's the music:)

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 9:35:08

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The Darker Side of the Internet. (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

as an engineer, I was sort of interested in what made the AK47 still so popular more than 60 years later, despite manufacturing innovations and technology.

Ron - the Fender Telecaster and Stratocaster, and the Gibson Les Paul 'entered service' shortly after the AK-47 (in the early 1950s), and despite technological advances and fancy devices are still going strong and preferred by many musicians, which suggests that they just haven't really been improved on. (They are the AKs of electric guitars...

).

Here's a guy who - in a modern twist on 'swords into ploughshares' turns guns into guitars. Nice symbolism but it probably doesn't feel or sound as good as a Strat.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2009 9:48:02