alzapua technique

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alzapua technique

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rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

alzapua technique

ok, i give up what is a simple approach to alzapua? I've looked at Kliments web site and it is a nice pictoral, but I dont get it. Can it be done with pmp? I know one ras with that combo/ I think basically it is a rest stroke w/ p a up stroke with either p or i (depending on what school your from) and a downstroke with p again.? Is that correct? I know simple version but that is what I need thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2004 19:18:49

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

just use the thump P

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2004 19:56:23

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

Norman Kliman gives about the best discription of alzapua I've seen. Have you listened to the audio samples? Check out www.affedis.com, Alain Faucher's site for another explanation. There's no audio sample, but you might have some of the recording that he references.
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2004 20:02:18

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

I tried Phil's link but couldn't get it to open.

Try this.

Alzapua is two strokes with the thumb playing into the strings. Not three strokes.

Index and middle fingers rest on the soundboard, your hang is arched and the thumb is free to swing like a pendulum up behind your fingers.

The down stroke is one movement except it gets interupted because your thumb comes into contact (as it swings through it's arc) with the next string. This is only momentarily because you force it to break free to complete the movement.

The back stroke is just the pendulum returning back up to start the cycle over again.

By thinking of two movements, you start to understand that the Alzapua is created by the 'hiccup' within the first movement and this idea of a simple pendulum, swinging back and forth should help you get there.

It worked for me.

Grrr.......! needs fewer words.

Cheers
Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2004 18:36:14

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

that does explain, it is like a rest stroke but continues on and then up. ok thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2004 15:21:06

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

I tried Phil's link but couldn't get it to open.

I couldn't either. Try this: http://www.affedis.com/articles3.html
If that doesn't work then google 'Alain Faucher'. He's also got a couple of other interesting things for free.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2004 16:19:03

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Phil)

Hi Phil,

Got the link that time, jeez! that shoots my theory in the foot, he stresses three strokes! Oh! well, two worked for me

ha! ha!

Cheers
Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2004 18:16:28

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

searched for Faucher site but cant find it, if someone has it pls forward thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2004 18:42:00

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

he stresses three strokes! Oh! well, two worked for me ha! ha!

Jim,
I've always seen alzapua as in three strokes (?)

What, with this and the Bulerias in 2's, we're gonna have to meet up sometime and sort all this stuff out LOL!

cheers amigo,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2004 20:42:34

Guest

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Ron.M)

No matter how you think of it, alzapua is a triplet. e.g.

1. Thumb plays a rest stroke on the E string
2. Thumb plays a free stroke over the A and D strings
3. Thumb returns as a freestroke over D and A strings

Repeat, ensuring that each stroke has the same time value: 123,123 etc.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2004 0:55:35

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

I've always seen alzapua as in three strokes (?)
What, with this and the Bulerias in 2's, we're gonna have to meet up sometime and sort all this stuff out LOL!

Yes fellow fellow, we'll need to do that

It's just an easy way of thinking about the pendulum swing, two strokes but produces three sounds. Having said that, as you know there are all types of Alzapua, with legados etc.

Cheers
Jim

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2004 18:37:01

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Jim,
I've heard you play and you play alzapua fine!
It's just that you "think" of it as in two, and others think of it in three.

That's exactly what I've said about Paco de Lucia trying to teach any one of us picado technique.
You'd be pretty excited about the prospect of it, but I bet after you left, you'd be more mixed up than ever.
Probably because *he* isn't really sure how he does it himself.
Not that he can explain in words anyway.
He's just been doing it for ages and can't really understand why your body isn't reacting the same way his does.
He's who he is and you are who you are.
He has no idea what it feels like to be *you*.
He can't let you inside his body to see how your hand should feel to play like that.
But to him it's natural and pretty obvious.
Does it every day, just warming up. LOL!

I'm sure Paco doesn't think he's a genius when he's alone with his own thoughts.
Only a little boy made good from Algeciras.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2004 21:02:16

davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Phil)

Hi Phil,
I'm new to flamenco, but I am becoming increasingly captivated with it. As a beginner in flamenco, I'm going through one or two books to try to get the feel of compas, the different types of songs and the variety of techniques that appear to be used in guitar playing.

I have also looked up the website with the alzapua technique and it looks very useful info and I will get around to trying those examples out shortly.

many thanks
davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2004 14:29:57

Melchor

Posts: 87
Joined: Sep. 1 2003
From: Jeré

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

Hi Rick, I could explain the technique but it wouldn´t be the same. So I recommend you get the Oscar Herrero video volumen 2 where this technique is explained in detail. There is nothing like watching somebody else doing it. I have to say this is the technique I find most difficult and the only one I never attempt to do. I alwyas leave for later.

Un saludo

Melchor

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Carpe Diem y no dejes para mañana lo que puedas hacer hoy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2004 15:17:11

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to Melchor)

quote:

So I recommend you get the Oscar Herrero video volumen 2

If you mean the "Guitarra Flamenca" series, they are also available on DVD.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2004 15:18:56

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Alzapua Tips (in reply to rickm)

Actually, I have not mastered this technique, but I was taught by someone who has, Tino Van der Smaan. He is a pro player in Sevilla. Basically, you have to watch people play it to really get the idea. But one thing is to let your thumb be completely relaxed. You think you have to muscle the stroke, but that's not true. The thumb, initially, should be relaxed limp, just along for the ride. You use the forearm to move it and you don't keep it stiff. I touched Tino's thumb and it was completely soft. Second, downstrokes require a golpe. Play the golpe, then play the downstroke. They are two seperate motions. Once this feels comfortable, you can make them closer and closer, until eventually they become the same. If you always keep the sensation of the golpe coming first, then the proper sequence will come pretty naturally.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2004 15:36:45

rickm

Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004

RE: alzapua technique (in reply to rickm)

I have a sense of the technique from Kliments web site and various posts, this is the first I have heard of a golpe with the down stroke. So, then the sequence would be a
1. downstroke with thumb on a accent string, E or A,
2. downstroke on the chorded notes with a golpe
3. upstroke across the chorded notes?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2004 17:05:22