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Wow, talk about an interesting fusion. According to their myspace, the foro's own, Jason McGuire had a hand in the making of their demo. They play live with flamenco dancers, too.
When it comes to flamenco I'm very much a traditionalist, but I did grow up on metal, so it's an interesting listen. Speaking of which, one of the former guitarists for Megadeth, Jeff Young, is now a classical and flamenco guitarist. I almost saw him perform the other night, but I had to work.
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
I think we had one or two threads on them before...
They're doing what they try to do pretty well, except...and I probably said it in the other threads also - that I find there is not a lot of actual 'fusion' going on - rather an interchangeable sequence of "mundane metal" parts with "decent flamenco" parts. If you were to remove either, not a whole lot would be lost in terms of the individual compositions. So I don't know. But it's a good start, I guess, giving all the purists a heart attack for good measure.
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
I am not sure where to put this and it's not at all flamenco but I was unaware of any rock players fingerpicking quite like it. It is a kind of fusion and has its art.
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to Munin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Munin
I think we had one or two threads on them before...
They're doing what they try to do pretty well, except...and I probably said it in the other threads also - that I find there is not a lot of actual 'fusion' going on - rather an interchangeable sequence of "mundane metal" parts with "decent flamenco" parts. If you were to remove either, not a whole lot would be lost in terms of the individual compositions. So I don't know. But it's a good start, I guess, giving all the purists a heart attack for good measure.
I agree. Flamenco and rock fusion is hard to do. Morente's Omega is probably the best example, but even that is more often flamenco and rock mashed together than a real fusion. But this flametal stuff, it's mostly some quiet flamenco then OUT OF NOWHERE, metal, completely unrelated. I don't know, not my thing
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
quote:
ORIGINAL: polishcomedy
Whether you like them or not, you cannot deny the first video I posted of him playing a rumba isn't totally awesome.
Well, i could try I mean there surely must be a market for this. Its all perfect, the black clothes, the orange guitar, palmas, long hair... they are putting much effort to look like flamenco. And then the music plays, you start looking at the title of the video...flamenco guitar. You think they somehow have missed to replace the "e" by an "i".
But the palmas were cool, they sound more like buleria palmas.
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to M.S.A.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: M.S.A.
this is what can be found somewhere, but it's a commercial site I better do not past a link:
Hard to believe that this strange rarity was reissued on CD and reissued legitimately, but here it is on the Long Hair label, who do these things well! Sabicas was a famous Spanish flamenco guitarist who lived in the USA for a number of years. In 1970, under pressure from his brother, he recorded this fusion of Spanish music with psychedelic rock and jazz in a band that features US guitarist Joe Beck, Tony Levin on bass, Warren Bernhardt on piano and organ and Donald McDonald on drums. It's a surprisingly solid progressive album, especially for how early this is and considering the meeting of Spanish traditionalist with NY rockers, it could have been a mess, but it compares very well with Spanish bands doing a similar thing several years later. "This album shows a fantastic mixture of authentic traditional flamenco, progressive and psychedelic rock by Spanish legend Sabicas and extraordinary electric jazzrock guitar by Joe Beck with congenial backing band among others Donald MacDonald on drums, Warren Bernhardt organ and Tony Levin on bass. This is an album for those who are willing to look over the edges of their progressive and psychedelic horizon. Great guitar playing (lots of electric and acoustic guitars) all over. Unique and hypnotizing! Originally released in 1970 and for the first time on CD. Digitally remastered from the mastertape."
Oh, now I sort of get what this album might sound like - previously I envisioned some atrocious glam rock fusion or something.
There were quite a few progressive rock bands back then who toyed around with flamenco in their compositions (genuinely)...Triana was one of the better ones and probably were an influence in my rising interest in flamenco.
Deniz, what did you not like about the rumba video? I think it sounded great and looked uber cool. Maybe I'm too new to understand why I shouldn't like it, but in the end I believe the purpose of music is to enjoy it for what it is, not stress whether it is "true". By this same logic we can discredit everything Paco De Lucia has done in terms of progressing the genre. I prefer the standard guitar and palmas, or guitar and cajon, but this is sort of thing, courtesy of Vicente Amigo, is very enjoyable, as well:
The thing that irks me about purism is how far back do you need to go before it's acceptable to listen to? It's much like how the Amish refuse to accept technological advancements, but still use things like the wheel, which was at one point a technological advancement.
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
quote:
The thing that irks me about purism is how far back do you need to go before it's acceptable to listen to? It's much like how the Amish refuse to accept technological advancements, but still use things like the wheel, which was at one point a technological advancement.
But there's a flip side to that, no? Flamencos ("purist" or otherwise) should be irked when some hack like Armik or Benise advertises their music as flamenco, or when one's friend says "oh, you play flamenco? Check out my Gipsy Kings CD, they're the best at flamenco!" There is a point at which innovation is too much - at which music might be fine (I, for one, have always loved Ottmar Liebert), but it can't be called flamenco, because it has strayed too far from the boundaries of that tradition. These purism arguments aren't too say what's "acceptable" to listen to or what's "very enjoyable", it's to say what's flamenco - and when you have a tradition worth preserving, that is very, very valuable.
So where's the line? It's fuzzy, for sure, but we can generally apply the metric that any changes to a tradition must be gradual, and working wholly within that tradition. If Armik releases a CD eliminating cante, palos, palmas, and compás in one fell swoop, leaving only vaguely Spanish-sounding guitar, I think we can safely say there has been no gradual change within the context of flamenco. Paco, on the other hand, was a huge innovator and very "progressive"*, but still stayed true to the majority of the fundamental tenets of flamenco. He worked within flamenco.
*I dislike using the word progressive here, though. Was flamenco post-Paco really an improvement over flamenco pre-Paco? Was flamenco actually progressing, or just changing?
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
quote:
ORIGINAL: polishcomedy what did you not like about the rumba video?
It would have been cool, if it would have been entitled differently. Like, "own version of Rumba", or "funky rumba" or whatever. On his homepage he is advertised as one of the "most talented" flamenco guitarist in US, which is just a bad PR-phrase. I mean its ok to borrow some ideas from flamenco and do your own thing with it, but these guys call themselves Flamenco. And that destroys the mood for me completely. Because i know where they have their ideas from. I prefer to hear the originals. They are not fakes because they borrow ideas, but because they discredit themselves by mislabeling their art, to get more reputation.
Im not a purist either. Well, it depends on what YOU think a purist is.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
Just a note now I got to my computer! I got to hang with Ben in Long Beach for a day, we had a blast and jammed a little in my hotel room. Wish I could spend more time with him. His band played for Jason Becker at his home in Richmond, which I think is very inspiring to know!
Another funny thing was in LA, I rehearsed with Yiyi and Antonio Granjero in Benise's Studio, and he was waiting outside for us to finish with his entorage of girl dancers. The two female dancers hanging with us made him a little jealous I think, but he seemed like a nice guy, and was not mad we were cutting into his rehearsal time.
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
Very cool, Ricardo! Deniz, as far as the naming of the video, it's possible that the person whose account to which the video is uploaded is just a fan, and not an official representative. That person might not know any better, and had Ben uploaded it he would have titled it more appropriately. This is of course speculation.
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to kudo)
thanks for the reminder Kudo guess i only discovered this a few days ago.. Benjamins a great player with a diffferent approach...not sure my ears are ready for the metal assault so i'm a bit more geared to his acoustic stuff.. but hey a great discovery... like the story how he came home one day and someone had ripped off his electric guitar and amp and all he had left was a spanish guitar...thus his introduction to flamenco wonder if it will spawn a new genre...?
Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands
RE: Flamenco + Metal = FLAMETAL (in reply to polishcomedy)
I used to listen to metal for years, and there is plenty of metal/classical fusion going on, wich works realy well.
I think the whole flamenco/metal fusion could be done very well, but they would have to use a proper compas at least. I think the desonant chords and phrases from flamenco could inspire alot of metal players.
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