Guitar security

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Guitar security

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Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

Guitar security

Its probably the worst nightmare of a musician to get their best instrument stolen and no matter how good your insurance is, its not going to replace the connection a musician has with an instument that they may have spent many years looking for.

It also occurred to me that when you buy a second hand instrument that may have belonged to a particular player, there is not really any way to prove or disprove that the player did in fact own or use that instrument.

This set me thinking about how guitars could be electronically tagged.
This would provide
1. A record of the ownership of the instrument.
2. A degree of security making it more difficult to sell a stolen instrument.

The idea came after recently taking my dog to the vet. The dog has an electronic chip under its skin with details of age, ownership, name, address, medication etc. which can easily be read by the vet by passing an electronic reader over the chip. This technology is quite simple and also very cheap now and I though that maybe it could be applied to instruments. The chip (which is very small) would have to be implanted by the luthier in a place that is impossible to remove like under the heel on the interior of the guitar. (here is a little schematic)

Upon purchase the owners details could be recorded into a database. Larger music shops, luthiers and dealers could have readers. Stolen instruments could be flagged and a complete history of ownership and repairs could be recorded on the chip. Obviously this would mean that all luthiers would have to start implanting chips in instruments.

What do you guys think? Is this a good idea? Is it practical? Do you think it would make any difference. Obviously I'm not suggesting that every chinese guitar should come with this system and it would only be useful to makers of hand made guitars. However might this be something that both owners and luthiers would be interested in incorporating into new instruments?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2009 9:05:32

DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

What a great idea Pimeintito...but a tough sell.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2009 10:28:10

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

i think it's a great idea. very well thought out. i bet it'll take awhile before it catches on though. but who knows. what do you have planned?

check this out. if electronic chips dont sell, then maybe if people at least start using this idea.
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/Label/label.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2009 0:33:45

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

It is a great idea Pimientito, as your explanation for its need is compelling.
Implementing the security system –the chip- would be quite inexpensive. The problem is persuading shops to adhere to a rule which may deter some of the most favorable “trades” … doubtfully acquired goods.

Title to stolen goods does not transfer, even to a good-faith buyer –who paid at arm-length and without knowledge .

Therefore, the original owner can always insist on restitution of his stolen guitar, no matter how many hands it changed and how much was it paid for from which prestigious store.

The uncomfortable consequences of the Security System would be a significant degree of insecurity for those buying second hand instruments.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2009 6:57:41

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

On the other hand, what if someone legitimately sells a guitar then changes their mind?

How could the buyer prove to the police that they paid for it?

You'd have to work out a way of changing the information in the chip - like with the registration details of a car.

That flaw aside, it's a handy idea for high-value instruments.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2009 8:27:56

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Guitar security (in reply to sam_m)

I know that there is no perfect system but if a dealer did sell a guitar and then report it stolen to get it back again, that news would go round very quickly indeed. It wouldnt matter if the guitar was chipped or not. There are not that many dealers of valuable instruments and most rely on their reputation.

Secondly you would be pretty foolish to give someone 4000 euros or so and not get them to sign a piece of paper saying that you have given them a large amount of cash. I buy all my guitars in cash but I always have a proof of purchase.

Changing or adding details to the chip would have to be done by a dealer or by the luthier. Details can be added to the chip very simply but you would need a certificate of ownership as well to authorise changes. If the changes are authorised and you have a receipt, I think you would actually be less likely to end up in michelos scenario of buying a stolen instrument. As I say, this would only work for really top of the range instruments but could be applied to cellos, harps, and wind instruments too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2009 11:30:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

when you buy a car you get a log book/documentation, and that passes from owner to owner, it could work the same for guitars

also, racehorses are chipped as foals. the owner doesn't necessarily have their info added to the chip, but it is registered in some way, and any new owner gets a passport/documents.

it's a really good idea and i don't see why it couldn't work

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2009 15:01:07

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

My UK musical instrument insurer sent me a sample of the Smartwater security system last year.
http://www.smartwater.com/Home.aspx

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2009 1:06:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

There are a couple of Radio Frequency Tag or Laser Hologram Tag manufacturers suggesting this use for their product.

http://www.snagg.com/faq.htm

http://www.playrecord.net/music-accessories/instrument-care/musitrac-microchip-tracker-diy-kit.p29152.html

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 18 2009 5:23:28

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Guitar security (in reply to Pimientito)

Can you find the chip via GPS?

If yes, I would also buy such a chip for my notebook. The one I owned before was stolen.. And the strange thing is the person who stole it, also stole my cellphone that laid next to my notebook at work.
When I saw the broken safety chain of my notebook I rushed through the whole university to find this bastard.... When I gave up, I came to the idea to call this bastard on my cellphone. .... And he answered my phone!!!!!!!! And laughed his ass off.
Well I convinced him to buy my notebook back.. He wanted me to come to a near park with 3000euros.... tststs... Such idiots... Instead of me 3 cops in civil went to this point..

The thief were dumb,... but not dumb enough..

Man I would give anything for such a chip. I could have send my Moroccan friends to the thief with a rusty poker!!