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What form of abanico do you use?   You are logged in as Guest
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polishcomedy

 

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando

What form of abanico do you use? 
This technique is giving me the most difficulty of all the flamenco techniques. Just in case my terminology is off, I'm talking about the fast tresillo strums. I have been mostly practicing p-ma-p, where the first thumb is an upstroke, the first mi is a downstroke, and the last p is also a downstroke, and also ma-p-p, where ma is down, p down and p up. I recently spoke with a local flamenco guitarist who told me he exclusively uses p-a-i, where p is up, a is down, i is down. He said he does it this way so that the full breadth of the nail is always striking the strings, and never the underside of the nail. I find that way of doing it very cumbersome. It's slow, and I have to shift my hand a lot more. I have also seen a variation on that last one that was p-q-i (q = pinky).

What do you guys use, and do you have any exercises to increase speed? My hand does not want to cooperate very well on this.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2009 23:30:32
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I use p-a-i a lot. It's VERY useful and has it's specific effect. But yes, it takes quite a while to develop, just don't give up, in a week or two it will become natural... practice it slow (the same with any technique...), seperate the strikes and make them all sound equally powerful...
IMO this particular abanico is essential in flamenco so no excuses

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si no me caso este año que yo
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2009 23:36:51
 
polishcomedy

 

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to Matic) 
Do you use any of the others? Am I wasting my time using them? I watched the Aaron Gilmartin DVD, and it seems most of his playing involves a lot of abanico, and he says he mostly uses the p up/ma down/p down.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2009 23:39:42
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
Of course I do, IMO the more you have under your belt, the more different sounds you can create, you have more tools availible to create dinamical music. Pay attention on differences of sound different types of rasgueados/abanicos create. Then use what fits... listen to the recordings and try to recognize the differences...

And try PdL's El Tempul variation :

i(downstroke with GOLPE)-i(up)-a(down)-i(down)-i(up)-a(down)...repeat

Good luck

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vengo de los san migueles
si no me caso este año que yo
me caso el año que viene
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 17 2009 23:46:17
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I use different:

I use the one with the thumb going up and down the most. My way i P am P. the am goes down together. This is my strongest and most articulate rasgueado.

I also use one where the thumb only does the upstroke. My way is P a i. I find it easyer to skip the m and use the a because the m is so much longer, but its all very personal.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 0:29:11
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
quote:

p-mi-p, where the first thumb is an upstroke, the first mi is a downstroke, and the last p is also a downstroke


This is called the Marote rasgueo after Juan Maya "Marote" who created it. My teacher was a student of Marote, and due to a gunshot wound to his hand that was improperly operated on by a Spanish surgeon, he used this strum almost exclusively. In his playing it was incredibly even and round, probably the best tresillo technique I have heard by any guitarist. It's the king of rasgueados, but I haven't perfected it quite enough to do it justice so I almost always use p-a-i. You can do variations with that one by starting on different fingers.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 5:27:33
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to Andy Culpepper) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

due to a gunshot wound to his hand that was improperly operated on by a Spanish surgeon, he used this strum almost exclusively.


Nice story but my understanding is he had a birth defect that resulted in a missing joint in his little finger on both hands.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 6:15:21
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Nice story but my understanding is he had a birth defect that resulted in a missing joint in his little finger on both hands.


Haha, no I was talking about my teacher not Marote.

You are correct though.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 6:32:35
 
polishcomedy

 

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I apologize...every place that I said "mi" I actually meant "ma". I've edited my post to reflect the change.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 9:10:34
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I find that the different variations are mostly interchangeable and dependent on the player preference. Personally I tend to do mostly p-ma-p as I find I get the most stable effect (same strong volume on all strokes). I find it easier to use p-a-i on those occasions I want to finish with the downstroke rather than the upstroke. You can do p-i-p, p-m-p, or p-a-p just as well.

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 9:20:01
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
i like p-am-p because it feels very "lazy." i just wiggle my wrist around. the sound is heavier, "fatter." the only thing i dont like is the down stroke with the thumb sounds different than the upstroke.

with p-a-i, it feels very natural. you have to not think of the movement of each individual finger very much. but rather the feeling of the weight of the hand and the flicking of the fingers together as a whole. i would consider the sound "sharper."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 18 2009 20:31:24
 
Aadi

 

Posts: 28
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
 

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
I mainly use p-x-i, which I cribbed from Paco Peña. I like it because it feels very controlled and precise.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2009 16:33:38
 
minordjango

 

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005
 

RE: What form of abanico do you use? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
quote:

I find that way of doing it very cumbersome


id say RH rolls are naturaly a wee strange, so dude...just practice them when you can, i mean ......for example you mums talking with you practice it on your leg (the rh roll pattern, you have friends over Mute the strings practice it, think about it (What your doing now ) and the aim is learn and forget (miles davis style).

try all the other variations check out yuor method books or chat on here etc, and find the most popular and drill them........o'herrero has them all written in one book dvd method one , get them going man , and teach me
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2009 6:44:13
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