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A few weeks ago I tentatively suggested a "Small Prizes Fund" and asked if anyone would be prepared to host it.
gj replied that as a Public Notary he was often required to set up such a service and would be happy to do so.
Things then lost momentum, due to various factors.
I contacted him tonight to confirm that this would still be OK and he has replied in the affirmative.
He will be getting his Assistant (the famous "Irene") to set one up immediately.
It will be a PayPal account.
The only donation acceptable is $3 U.S.
No more or less.
Because of audit considerations, the user- names of contributors will have to be published at certain audit intervals, although those who prefer to remain anonymous can request to do so. That keeps everything above board.
The PayPal address to which the $3 donation is to be sent will be published here in due course.
Donations can be sent to this address via your own PayPal account and any adjustments to local currency will be carried out by PayPal.
If anyone is in disagreement with any aspect of this, can they please let themselves be known.
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
gj replied that as a Public Notary he was often required to set up such a service and would be happy to do so.
yes sir, absolutely pleased to serve this community. [for the record, the notary public role in the US is not as serious as it is in Europe, although every lawyer is also a Notary, here. It is more as a member of the NY bar that i often escrow funds for clients and will be happy to di it for Forum's donations. Given the extent of the contribution, however, i will NOT set up a non-for-profit charitable organization, to afford tax deductions on the $3 dollars.... it would seem disproportionate an effort. I will simply accept the honor of your trust and escrow funds to be disboursed at Ron's instructions -yes, i need somone who will instruct me to do so- for the benefit of the Forum.]
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Arash)
quote:
why is that?
so no one can say, "i donated the most. i'm the most benevolent. i obviously care the most about this forum. i deserve a bigger say. ban this person, that person, this child, etc. i want this changed, that changed, etc etc..."
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ailsa)
quote:
Does that mean everyone who wants to enter a challenge should pay to enter, and then there's a prize?
I see it as a General "slush-fund" which can be used to pay for small prizes, (Cejilla,CD, Book etc) in connection with future challenges to make them more fun and to make them more "official" as Florian says.
Nobody is compelled to donate and there is no compulsory entrance fee for any challenge.
If as many members as possible can dig into their pocket for some loose change initially, to provide a bit of a Challenge Pot then that should be able to finance quite a lot of things for a while.
When the pot is getting a bit low, we will ask for another round of donations.
This may be only once or twice a year....I dunno...It depends on how it goes and how many members support the venture.
The reason for a $3 single donation per member per round is so no member can claim more say or preferential treatment on the Forum.
$3 is a very small amount of money to most folk and will buy only a single guitar string here in the UK.
Anyone who cannot afford this small sum has the blessings and prayers of all here and sympathetic understanding of their abject poverty.
Anyone who simply objects or is disinclined to donate is free to do so.
It would be beneficial to the Fund Holder (gj), if you could include your log-on name with your contribution, so that all funds can be ultimately verified if required.
This is so that any digruntled person in the future cannot say things like... "There are 2800 members here....if even only half contributed $3, you would have $4,200....Only $600 has been spent on prizes...so what happened to the rest of it..huh?"
When in fact the reality of the situation is that only 200 members contributed.
An Excel sheet of names in alphabetical order can then be published if required and donators can see that their contribution has been properly recorded, along with the outgoing total expenditure. (This also avoids the donators actual email address being published as PayPal is an email based account system.)
I wouldn't ever expect this to happen, but folk can be strange and we must afford the Fund Holder maximum protection against false accusations or suspicions.
Well that's my thoughts on it anyway. Obviously anyone can add further comments, but let's not get too bogged down in detail or arguments so that the show doesn't even get off the ground and is abandoned.
Time is ticking away towards the Solea Challenge in a couple of weeks.
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
a General "slush-fund" which can be used to pay for small prizes, (Cejilla,CD, Book etc) in connection with future challenges to make them more fun and to make them more "official" as Florian says.
Sounds perfect. As soon as gj is ready to go I'll make a donation. Thanks for sorting it out Ron and gj.
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ailsa)
hey i missed this post ...great stuff..
yes its nice when we come to the realization that we can take care of ourselfs ..we could have the greatest competitions ever and best prices ever with just a litlle bit of organization
i am in..will contribuite,..we could have all kinds of cool awards and competitions..
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to Ron.M)
Thank you Ron for the very sound and clear outline of rules and recommendations.
TRANSPARENCY: this is probably the most time consuming part, particularly if we can hope in a lot of contributions. I agree, however, that I will 1. share a periodic Accounting with the Forum 2. allow general/public Viewing Access to the bank-account hosting the contributions (Fund).
DISCIPLINE OF BANK ACCOUNT: by allowing viewing access, I am afraid I would forfeit the opportunity to host the Fund in my attorney’s escrow. These accounts are strictly disciplined by the certifying state (NY) and solely attorneys are permitted to administer them, with serious disciplinary consequences. It would probably represent the best solution, but wouldn’t allow the extent of transparency the Forum deserves and which would protect me (as you prudently cautioned) from allegations of mishandling or embezzling funds. Instead, I suppose we should have an ordinary account.
TAX CONSEQUENCES: I need to research this item, so to avoid any tax on the account.
SOLUTIONs:
Registering an entity as a Non-For-Profit (hereinafter “NFP”) would indeed resolve many problems. There would be a serious initial investment of time but it would afford me and the Forum a formidable vehicle to: 1. avoid any tax consequences 2. allow transparency 3. receive government controlled and insured accounts 4. afford tax deductions to contributors [US tax payers certainly, foreigners –in certain qualified jurisdictions- to be determined]; a. this could be become interesting when and we will allow more substantial contributions from individuals and entities. Without complicating matters, this effort (setting up the NFP) may indeed create a thee layered contributory plan, to: i. acquire and distribute competition prices –this could be the basic $3 donation; ii. benefit the administration of the Forum; iii. attract any other contribution to organize and sponsor members’ activities and events (such as a Video, CD or Concert, research and tutorial material) While I share Ron’s concern that no one should develop a sense of privileged entitlement based on contribution, stringent rules of anonymity could be sanctioned unless the contribution is made to further or promote the contributor agency, notoriety or product (the Gov.of Spain, Vicente Amigo’s CDs or One’s website or Guitars).
If we choose this option, it would require an executive committee of some sort. Obviously Simon and Ron would be the automatic selection, perhaps supported by an Advisory committee –including Lawyers and Accountants wishing to devote some pro-bono time.
If there is a consensus I recommend this option. Although a modest contribution, its demands and issues wouldn’t differ from any other NFP type fund. It would be more work for me, but it would pay off in the long run.
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to gj Michelob)
Oooh errr...... that sounds awful complicated gj, for we non-legal people.
You seem like a trustworthy sort gj - I can't see you absconding with the paltry amount we are going to donate , so I am happy to take your expert recommendation. Set it up however is most beneficial and not too demanding on your time.
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to Ailsa)
'cannot blame you or anyone else for fearing some complications, but it would be mostly complicated for me. Once the IRS certifies the Non for profit, it would basically be a bank account affording transparency to all.
Thank you for your kind words, incidentally, i really feel honored to serve in such role.
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
i really feel honored to serve in such role.
No way gj!
We are all very much appreciate that you will take on the job!
As for myself, as a common pleb , I would have just handled the thing as a completely personal non-profit making account and answered any IR or (IRS) matters with statements of input/output and let them decide if they want to take me to task to recoup the 3 cents the Fund gained in my Current Account. (These days probably more like 1 cent )
But I know as a Lawyer, you can find issues with this, so all I can say is do it ANY way that it seems easier for you and will present the least problems.
But I wouldn't worry too much about your name appearing in the NY Times as the new Bernard Madoff!
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ron.M)
Sounds ok for me. Prizes are always a great inspiration. (And coworkers who are a slight tick better in geography and won an internet travvel guessing game... AArrr!! I have to beat him till tomorrow. SO Im out for today learning cities, countrys, monuments, and flags... hahah.. Im very close!!) I would do my part as well. But I dont have a paypal account. I had one in far past. It took some weeks to get it as I remember. At the weekend I have time. I´ll check paypal out this weekend.
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
(And coworkers who are a slight tick better in geography and won an internet travvel guessing game... AArrr!! I have to beat him till tomorrow. SO Im out for today learning cities, countrys, monuments, and flags... hahah.. Im very close!!)
1. Yes I quote myself.. 2. YEAH!! I GOT over 2000 points more till now! He will get a big shock tomorrow when he recognizez that I AM the new No.1 !! MUHAHAHAHAaaaaa!!!!
(eeh.. always these damn games about who is the man.. ,.. Well.. I guess... eh no Im sure: NOW ITS ME!! MUHAHAHHAAA!!!
Sorry for this off topic. Just ignore it please. But for explination.. hes damn hard to beat in any category (except guitar). So,.. it really makes my lucky. I hope tomorrw when I come to work and check the scores again, he didnt get a new highscore..
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to edguerin)
Hi Ed,
Perhaps we should start a whole new thread for this!
In the first picture, I can only tell from the visual clues, that it's definitely not the UK, for it is not normal here to see folk taking their pet goats for a walk.
The second picture is terrific!
Harps back to an age when work was not outsourced to the cheapest contractor and folk demanded "value for money", quantity of money of course being the measuring stick of ALL values or anything of worth in today's society.
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund (in reply to Ron.M)
Could yo add the poits I would get for knowing the buildings to my facebook account? I mean,.. I´m not really interested in the knowledge but in having more points than my friend you know.
quote:
or, more in keeping with our foro:
( sorry, off topic I know , just couldn't resist )
I could swaer I saw princess Amidala walking around there when I was in seville.
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
But I know as a Lawyer, you can find issues with this, so all I can say is do it ANY way that it seems easier for you and will present the least problems.
Thank you Ron for understanding my professional perspective.
For sake of urgency, Irene will set up initially a PayPal account and i will collect contribution in my Attorney's trust account. I will try to set up a NFP but should time restriction so require, i will use the trust account as the Foro dedicated fund.
I will need a little trust at the outset i guess, but will share statements and other information which will comfort any concern..
[btw... Irene is not my wife, but my assistant... Robin, or Dct. Watson]
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
I will need a little trust at the outset i guess, but will share statements and other information which will comfort any concern..
ofcourse mate, not a problem..you are the best candidate..u have just spent all that money out of your own pocket in the prices for the other challenges, shows your motivation is unselfish and about the foro.. so u have our complete trust....
u just do what you need to do without worring about stuff like that, let us know what we need to do, and thank you, you have our gratitude for once again going out of your way for us
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: ForoFlamenco Small Prize Fund -N... (in reply to gj Michelob)
Thank you, Ed and Florian.
As often said, I love this forum and its community. Recent activities have proven quite stimulating and am excited to contribute to preserving that spirit.
I also believe that this (forum) is a great resource for learning to play flamenco, about flamenco and about flamenco musicians. With more than a little effort, this vehicle could reward all participants greatly, if we could devise a plan to link this social club to other sites and exploit some obvious synergies, to further the promotion of the music we cultivate on these pages.
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