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Flamenco Outlaws?
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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 RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to gato)
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Sounds like a start. I think that it is personal Ricardo, and people have their own reasons for being unsatisfied with any particular scene, or to have failed their own self as you say. Here in America? Nobody talks about it but it is a common thing, though I find it interesting to say the least. People are usually in their particular way, though to play out of compas all of the time; I could see how that would be hell to pay!
Thanks Val, local people are usually open though sometimes there could be a little bit of aileanation, in being their outsider, again, what can you do, and yet everything seems to have gone well. Sounds like a great story. I am glad that you got thru it so good.
So what am I getting at with this thread? I have no idea yet, seems like this phenomina is really gross from around here in the San Francisco Bay Area though, although I am not usually a pessimist. I thought it would be interesting.
I had the idea that flamenco would be different than music in the US, but what of the outsiders to the Gitano set, do they bring anything with them? Is there over ruling competition amongst white flamenco players? Don't forget the insiders/outsiders theory...... Could it be that common?
Gary
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 18 2009 15:54:53
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to gato)
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Ok, I think of myself as a sort of an outlaw here in the bay area, although I do have people to play with. It kind of gets on your nerves when people pass you over as Bob's brother, and it's never Gary. People just look at me like I am the strangest musician because I play all of the wrong instruments, and now the flamenco guitar has become a sort of refuge, even though I do play the hip instruments as well, such as electric guitar, drums, keyboard, and saxophone and yes the clarinet.
It's like a never ending thing where people are getting together to play music and I am not in their scene, and it's probably because I studied forms of music that get in the way such as Jazz, Flamenco, etc. People expect you to play rock n' roll and nothing else. And if you want to learn what they are playing they don't have the time. Every one is busy.
Sometimes I just want to tell them off, and as it stands they are probably busy right now practicing together, and partying. If you don't fit in you just don't stand a chance, and when I do get to play with people, it's not from the local set in the area. I figure that is just my scope and understanding, so the flamenco keeps me happy. I don't get to screw around and party with the people in the area, but, I would have to say, that even convincing them that I still play music tends to be in their disbelief. Call it bad self esteem, paranoia, call it what you will. But I feel as though I have been cheated, although now thinking back on the years I am glad and feel lucky to have missed out on all of the social decay in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have my people, they have theirs, and their bloody union.
You can't ever bring this up, but it feels good to get it off my chest. I know that I am capable, but aparently a lot of people think I am not. Sucks, yet now, I have grown use to it, and prefer to have these people out of my life. Reason for the thread? Maybe, but I always wonder what it's like in other places around the world, and wonder if my life would be different....
Gary
 
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Date Mar. 18 2009 17:32:59
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to gato)
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quote:
It's like a never ending thing where people are getting together to play music and I am not in their scene, and it's probably because I studied forms of music that get in the way such as Jazz, Flamenco, etc. People expect you to play rock n' roll and nothing else.
Sounds very like a very personal thing you are bothered by, yet your thread is very general. Which people you trying to hang with???? One thing I learned over the years, if want to hang out with certain musicians or clicks, you have to earn their respect by learning their music ON YOUR OWN. If you can impress them with just a little bit, you are in.
I would ask you, based on your "confession" or whatever that was, how is your RHYTHM??? ARe you very confident to hang on with the better rock drummers there? Can you keep to the chart real tight with the jazz drummer? Can you play with McGuire's cajon player (whoever it might be) by yourself and keep it tight?
Until you can answer yes for sure to any of those questions, well, then you are not really showing a deep respect for the music circles you are trying to enter. IMO. You need to work hard enough on your own, so when the chance comes, the doors will open for you. And it is really as simple as how confident your rhythm is.
Now if you think you are really the master already and your playing is right there, maybe you think these groups are intimidated by your skills? If that is the case, you need to be the one opening to them not vice versa....and again by learning THEIR music specifically. One tune is enough to open a door between any two musicians IMO.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 19 2009 6:40:39
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to Ricardo)
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Thanks Ricardo, my rhythm is great, and the problems I have are with non flamenco players though. I don't know, maybe I got too personal. This is the reason I play the flamenco, and today I am working on my abajo, seems like I work constantly, and it's been good though, I am still very much in to my music. Boy what a confession! Sucks. But, I will get thru this. 
I have great support from my brothers and friends, and I can break out of it as long as I am honest about this. When people avoid you there must be an underlying reason. It's something that I wish not to talk about, as that would strip me of my privacy completely though I am glad that I posted my confession.
And, that's the thing, lot's of musicians go thru this, and it is a common thing that doesn't necessarily reflect your skills as a musician. It's so complicated, and I guess I wanted to hear from others how they percieve this kind of thing.
What is the interesting thing is that it is very American to belong to the wider set or not to belong. That's why there are unions for finding people, but I will have nothing to do with them, and again for my own reasons that I just cannot mention.
But having that kind of exposure to a wider set would be nice.
You just have to come out with it and say so and that's what I did, and maybe things will change later if not sooner. Yet, I always hear from people how busy they are playing with the local set. Maybe I am better off and I tell myself that constantly, as my situation is really no one's business. And I get along, but -- It could have been nicer. It's the would have, could haves that are the enemy and I know that. Then again, I get a lot of work done because I actually get to avoid the people who would be a waste of time! 
Other wise, that's my personal experiance with the topic of this thread.
gary
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Date Mar. 19 2009 10:17:37
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to cneberg)
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cneberg,
Schizothymia is not the problem though I wish it were that easy. My problem if it were a psyche condition would be more at Meloncholia or something in that parameter. I am well aware of that, but it's actually just more at social circumstances than a psyche condition. I have a strong sense of awareness of my social preconditon that makes this all possible to talk about. Perhaps it's inapropriate, but talking about it resolves the problem. People become aware that you actually do exist, and you get on with your life, it's as simple as that. Problem solved. Thankyou for the suggestion though, I do enjoy psycology.
The whole idea of being an outsider naturally interests me as you can see, and I am the kind of person that will talk about anything, perhaps that is a problem but it just came out. I naturally want the problem resolved and that as you can see is of a social arena. I have Quadraphenia which is not really a problem, and is more like an induced phenomina, which is something I can live with. Everybody has a skelaton or two or in my case three in the closet........
Gary
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 19 2009 11:35:33
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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 RE: Flamenco Outlaws? (in reply to gato)
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Ok, switch gears, I aired my dirty secret, which was a very brave thing to do, so how do you percieve your local scene, is it open, is it closed, negative or positive? Possibly how long have you been at it, how are you doing with your music, and where do you percieve that you are going with it? Negative or positive. You might possibly even get a psychiatric diagnosis from someone practicing psychology on the Internet without a license! I think that this thread had possibilites but since it's going nowhere I think it should either die or possibly be a great place to talk about the music scene in your area. I think this thread is dead, unless you might have something to say about the origional slant of the topic.....otherwise thank you all for posting, I think it's done. ???
Gary
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Date Mar. 20 2009 22:42:06
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