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RE: Paco...El Tempúl?   You are logged in as Guest
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kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to Ron.M) 
Could someone translate what gj Michelob just said?









Kidding!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2009 10:25:34
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to Munin) 
quote:

I like mostly the modern players, Chicuelo and Moraito, Vicente to a lesser degree,..... except for Paco


i totally stand up for your right to like or dislike whatever or whoever, but what i find interesting is firstly which era paco don't you like?

you mentioned his accompanying camaron, but what about duets with ricardo modrego?
early solo stuff from the sixties?
latin duets with ramon? early to mid seventies when he was really branching out?
almoraima?
stuff with mclaughlin?
the manuel de falla album?
early eighties after he'd played with the jazz guys and was really pushing the envelope?
the "sextet"?
siroco?
aranjuez?
or the recent luzia/cositas buenas stuff?
there's just such a lot here to dislike!

and secondly, moraito is massively influenced by early 70's paco (el duende flamenco, fuente caudal), vicente started playing after seeing paco on tv or something, i don't know so much about chicuelo, but these guys are so massively influenced by paco...

i hear paco in so much of what other people do, even if it's kinda indirectly, i find it hard to imagine liking the others but not paco....

if you listen to moraito's uncle manuel morao and then moraito and you think "eh? how did he get from there to here? and then you listen to those paco albums i mentioned....

well, it's a personal thing i guess....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2009 12:56:28
 
Maissam

 

Posts: 38
Joined: Mar. 27 2007
 

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to mark indigo) 
actually I'm curious...specifically what in other guitarists would you attribute to Paco? I would be interested if someone could pick out a particular section in some other guitarist's work, like Vicente or Moraito or Chicuelo or whoever, and then show which part of what Paco recording do you think it was influenced by.

I've heard a lot that Paco has influenced an entire generation of guitarists, but I never thought too deeply about what specifically these influences have been. It would be helpful to see some examples.

I sometimes wonder if we give Paco too much credit for introducing new things to flamenco guitar. He seems to be by far the most prolific guitarist as far as number of albums and how widely available they are. Perhaps around the times that Paco was making some particular recording, a lot of guitarists were doing similar things and Paco was just one of them, and it just happens to be the case that Paco is one of the few people who actually got around to recording and widely distributing those ideas.

Any thoughts on this?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2009 15:44:09
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to Maissam) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maissam

actually I'm curious...specifically what in other guitarists would you attribute to Paco? I would be interested if someone could pick out a particular section in some other guitarist's work, like Vicente or Moraito or Chicuelo or whoever, and then show which part of what Paco recording do you think it was influenced by.

I've heard a lot that Paco has influenced an entire generation of guitarists, but I never thought too deeply about what specifically these influences have been. It would be helpful to see some examples.

I sometimes wonder if we give Paco too much credit for introducing new things to flamenco guitar. He seems to be by far the most prolific guitarist as far as number of albums and how widely available they are. Perhaps around the times that Paco was making some particular recording, a lot of guitarists were doing similar things and Paco was just one of them, and it just happens to be the case that Paco is one of the few people who actually got around to recording and widely distributing those ideas.

Any thoughts on this?


Well that is getting right at the heart of it. YOU give the example of something you like of vicente, chicuelo, moraito etc, that you really like, and i will try to show you exactly where they might have taken it from....In many cases you will be surprised that it is note for note but you never noticed...

Keep in mind guys Paco gets heavily influenced even now by the players around him, young players, unlike his peers, predecssors, and followers who seem to remain pretty stactic interms of style. Again, it is not to hard to show specific examples. How about this, certain passages in Soniquete are influencing Vicente's mandaito and Gerardo's jucal....but then Gerardo's piedras negras and vicente's Ojos de la Alhambra both turned around and influenced paco's "Antonia".....

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2009 18:59:32
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to kovachian) 
quote:

i don't know so much about chicuelo


Guess who? :-) >Chicuelo says it himself; "Paco"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2009 2:04:45
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Paco...El Tempúl? (in reply to Maissam) 
quote:

Perhaps around the times that Paco was making some particular recording, a lot of guitarists were doing similar things and Paco was just one of them, and it just happens to be the case that Paco is one of the few people who actually got around to recording and widely distributing those ideas.


I can see that as one point of view but thats looking back with hindsight.
Its like listening to Hendrix now and hearing all the subsequent spinoffs but you have to imagine living in the 60s and hearing hendrix for the first time. In the period Hendrix made every electric guitarist on the planet sit up and listen.

Of course there was a lot of experimentation but you have to understand that as Pacos material was coming out it was influencing players BECAUSE it was so revolutionary. Almoraima was as influencial to flamenco as Electric ladyland was to rock. Solo quiero caminar and then Sirocco are still seminal works but were simply jaw dropping when they came out. There are so many good players now thats its hard to imagine but if you talk to guys in Spain they remember buying those records as teenagers and playing them, playing them and playing them again until the vinyl wore out.

Even today not everybody gets Pacos genius.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2009 5:44:57
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