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influences on your flamenco?
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henrym3483
what made me ask the question was that in modern flamenco one can hear, especially in tomatito's and chicuelo's stuff the jazz and latin american influence with the chords and melodies obviously set to a flamenco compas. in tomates case la vacilona is a smorgazbord of jazz licks,latin jazz and brazilian jazz imho.
even in the taranta macael you can hear alot of jazz chords and different resolutions similiar to jazz.
How much jazz have you studied Henry? Do you know lots of standards, and have you played in a jazz combo of any sort before? Do you know how to read a chart and solo over changes? Can you comp chords for horn players with no piano there?
My feeling is that there is a discipline in jazz, just like in flamenco. It is not about a type of "chord" or resolutions. Resolutions in music are the same, ii or IV-V-I....all music. The way you "comp" in jazz is more important than the sound of a chord. On the other hand flamenco has nice chords so different than other genres. I doubt that a jazz player would be able to play Tomatito's "jazzy" type taranta progression, without some flamenco background first. Flamenco players find things with their fingers, regardless if they want a "jazzy" sound or not. You are right about the Brazillian influence, lots of modern flamencos try to do the brazillian choro and bossa nova type "grips" but that is not really "jazz chords" to me.
Flamenco guys learn some jazz "standards" (more often fusion standards) but IMO they always seem to use "flamenco grips" or rather chord moves that come from the flamenco discipline, rather than the jazz discipline. And even they "swing" the flamenco way, not the jazz way. Being inspired by a sound or style, but without the discipline, something quite unique can be created, which is how I describe modern flamenco as discussed here. In other words FLAMENCO CHORDS are used a certain way to interpret a Jazzy or latin sound. Add some latin percussion in the mix and you have salsa sounding flamenco, but it is not really "salsa"....
Hope that makes some sense. So in other words I agree both with Florian, your ear will affect your playing for sure, especially if you compose....and also I agree with Henrik. If you actually dig into the true discipline of different musics, you realize how and why they must be separate (unless you make a deliberate "fusion").
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 12 2009 5:53:08
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
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quote:
If you actually dig into the true discipline of different musics, you realize how and why they must be separate (unless you make a deliberate "fusion").
well yeah i never meant to suggest otherwise...conciosuly we all will try to...but one cannot unhear what they have heard..on the day to day bases id like to think I dont mix them either....but thats talking about thechnique more or playing something as written...as Ricardo said, but when composing its absoluteley impossible imo..
unless you listen and have listened to 100% flamenco all your life ..its imposible to claim that you arent influenced by outside music..ofcourse you are, outside music, life events, personal experiences, personal state of mind, taste, mood, musiceans you look up to, idols...all of it
even if indirectly..even if you did listen to 100% flamenco all your life...but you like Jeronimo for example...he himself has said that he is influenced alot by american music....every guitarist...Fernando la Rua is brazilian, has even studied with Rafael Rabello..do you think hes not influenced by brasilian music ?
theres nothing unpure or to be ashamed of imo about that if anything is well rounded, musicaly educated, this days...is to be respected not otherwise..
(and i am not talking about fusion btw, not that its ok to disrespect that...but i am just not refering to that atm...i am talking about a flamenco guitarist who is atleast aware of the world that he lives in....flamenco draws its inspiration from life...how can one claim to practice it if they have covered their eyes to the world around them)
theres more true and pure flamenco in your day to day life and experiences then there is in any flamenco book...ops  i have gonne really deep now lol ( il stop there)...but for me i belive it to be true..
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 12 2009 8:59:00
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