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how often do members on the foro look to other "latin" genre styles such a cuban son, brazilian bossa nova or salsa, or south american traditional music to get "different" licks or add to their flamenco repetoire?
one of my friends got interested in spanish guitar and bought a dvd on latin jazz, pretty nifty sounding stuff with an upbeat tempo's.
i personally have emily remlers work on latin jazz, her playing is amazing and i always get inspired after watching the video.
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
I think it's a fair enough question, and I would dare say that flamenco has more in common with some of the styles that Henry mentions than with classical guitar. PDL and Gerardo Nuñez have looked to jazz, Pepe Habichuela has his Yerbaguena, Son de la Frontera have their Cuban tres... flamenco doesn't exist in a vacuum!
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
Acctualy everystyle ...everything you hear its an influence on your flamenco..
everything you ever listen to shapes you as a musicean and music lover...and your own tastes influence the kind of flamenco you wanna play..so i think its a totaly relevant question..even if you dont conciously copy a lick or anything...its in there
90% of the stuff i listen to is flamenco but i do like listening to other stuff also
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
quote:
.everything you hear its an influence on your flamenco
So my flamenco is influenced by Wagner and Shostakovitch?
I know what you mean and you´re right, but its a bit abstract. I like very much etnic/folk music from the Balkans and there I can see a direct link to flamenco.
Back to the original question: No, no influences from latin music.
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Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
I think Florian's right. We are attracted to the music we love because it mirrors or our emotions/sensibilities/personalities. So, even if they may not fit 'musically' with flamenco forms, other styles of music we listen to and play inhabit our creative unconscious and bleed into our playing when we pick up a guitar and improvise and compose. In my case it may be jazz, Greek bouzouki, folk, classical, rock. It may just be a mood or 'feel' thing - e.g. in my view, Shostakovich and Wagner are VERY flamenco in their drama and passion - Stravinsky would have been even better :)
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
Jorge Cardoso's album "guitarra" had a great influence on my interest for guitar playing in general - one of the most beautiful collection of south american guitar music, i can really recommend this for all fans of "latin" style!
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Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
Sounds bizarre, but I doubt I'd have taken up the guitar had my father not owned an album by Los Indios Tabajaras - a guitar duo specializing in mellow instrumental cover versions of classics such as Smoke Gets in Your Eyes and Begin the Beguine. Mystery shrouds their origins, but RCA - their record company - liked to tell the story that they were two Brazilian brothers, Amazonian Indians, who discovered a guitar in the forest, found that it didn't explode like the firearms they'd found, learned to play the instrument, then ran off to Rio de Janeiro!
Certainly brings back the memories.
Later I discovered Charlie Byrd's Jazz/Samba album. Aren't we all influenced a little by that languid rumba style? :) People love it when you play and start slapping the guitar...
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
i try to seperate the music.
Flamenco music influence my flamenco music.
Jazz influence my jazz etc..
My "heros" are diffrent deppending on what i play. of course a part of it will always come out in what you (me) play no matter what it is.
Charlie Parker,john coltrane,MilesDavis,Thelonius Monk,Mingus...are very big influences for me. joe Pass, wes montgomery, John Abercrombie and on and on
But in my falsetas they´re not alowed
but in the end i guess its all mixed up after all.
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RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to duende)
what made me ask the question was that in modern flamenco one can hear, especially in tomatito's and chicuelo's stuff the jazz and latin american influence with the chords and melodies obviously set to a flamenco compas. in tomates case la vacilona is a smorgazbord of jazz licks,latin jazz and brazilian jazz imho.
even in the taranta macael you can hear alot of jazz chords and different resolutions similiar to jazz.
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RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
quote:
ORIGINAL: henrym3483
what made me ask the question was that in modern flamenco one can hear, especially in tomatito's and chicuelo's stuff the jazz and latin american influence with the chords and melodies obviously set to a flamenco compas. in tomates case la vacilona is a smorgazbord of jazz licks,latin jazz and brazilian jazz imho.
even in the taranta macael you can hear alot of jazz chords and different resolutions similiar to jazz.
How much jazz have you studied Henry? Do you know lots of standards, and have you played in a jazz combo of any sort before? Do you know how to read a chart and solo over changes? Can you comp chords for horn players with no piano there?
My feeling is that there is a discipline in jazz, just like in flamenco. It is not about a type of "chord" or resolutions. Resolutions in music are the same, ii or IV-V-I....all music. The way you "comp" in jazz is more important than the sound of a chord. On the other hand flamenco has nice chords so different than other genres. I doubt that a jazz player would be able to play Tomatito's "jazzy" type taranta progression, without some flamenco background first. Flamenco players find things with their fingers, regardless if they want a "jazzy" sound or not. You are right about the Brazillian influence, lots of modern flamencos try to do the brazillian choro and bossa nova type "grips" but that is not really "jazz chords" to me.
Flamenco guys learn some jazz "standards" (more often fusion standards) but IMO they always seem to use "flamenco grips" or rather chord moves that come from the flamenco discipline, rather than the jazz discipline. And even they "swing" the flamenco way, not the jazz way. Being inspired by a sound or style, but without the discipline, something quite unique can be created, which is how I describe modern flamenco as discussed here. In other words FLAMENCO CHORDS are used a certain way to interpret a Jazzy or latin sound. Add some latin percussion in the mix and you have salsa sounding flamenco, but it is not really "salsa"....
Hope that makes some sense. So in other words I agree both with Florian, your ear will affect your playing for sure, especially if you compose....and also I agree with Henrik. If you actually dig into the true discipline of different musics, you realize how and why they must be separate (unless you make a deliberate "fusion").
RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Flamenco guys learn some jazz "standards" (more often fusion standards) but IMO they always seem to use "flamenco grips" or rather chord moves that come from the flamenco discipline, rather than the jazz discipline. And even they "swing" the flamenco way, not the jazz way. Being inspired by a sound or style, but without the discipline, something quite unique can be created, which is how I describe modern flamenco as discussed here.
Your words reminded me of Tomate's Spain. Just listen how he comps for Camilo...
You most probably won't hear a jazz guitarist play F# chord like he does at 1:01 And C# at 2:10... I'm not saying jazz guys wouldn't use those chords, as Ricardo said, it's not so much about the chords, it's the execution, how their fingers find their way (if I understand what you're saying).
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RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
quote:
If you actually dig into the true discipline of different musics, you realize how and why they must be separate (unless you make a deliberate "fusion").
well yeah i never meant to suggest otherwise...conciosuly we all will try to...but one cannot unhear what they have heard..on the day to day bases id like to think I dont mix them either....but thats talking about thechnique more or playing something as written...as Ricardo said, but when composing its absoluteley impossible imo..
unless you listen and have listened to 100% flamenco all your life ..its imposible to claim that you arent influenced by outside music..ofcourse you are, outside music, life events, personal experiences, personal state of mind, taste, mood, musiceans you look up to, idols...all of it
even if indirectly..even if you did listen to 100% flamenco all your life...but you like Jeronimo for example...he himself has said that he is influenced alot by american music....every guitarist...Fernando la Rua is brazilian, has even studied with Rafael Rabello..do you think hes not influenced by brasilian music ?
theres nothing unpure or to be ashamed of imo about that if anything is well rounded, musicaly educated, this days...is to be respected not otherwise.. (and i am not talking about fusion btw, not that its ok to disrespect that...but i am just not refering to that atm...i am talking about a flamenco guitarist who is atleast aware of the world that he lives in....flamenco draws its inspiration from life...how can one claim to practice it if they have covered their eyes to the world around them)
theres more true and pure flamenco in your day to day life and experiences then there is in any flamenco book...ops i have gonne really deep now lol ( il stop there)...but for me i belive it to be true..
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RE: influences on your flamenco? (in reply to henrym3483)
as of right now, im trying to keep everything separated since im trying to learn flamenco from the ground up. i actually get kind of annoyed when i hear too much jazz or latin influence.
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