Tremolo Variations

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Tremolo Variations

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MarcChrys

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

Tremolo Variations

Not coming from a classical guitar background, and being largely self-taught, I sometimes come up against technical obstacles!
Today it's 'tremolo': I'm aware of p-a-m-i and the flamenco p-i-a-m-i and can see how other 4-letter variations could work (e.g. p-i-m-i), but having just watched Manolo Sanlucar and Grisha on YouTube playing 'Oracion', to my eyes it seems like they're not using the p stroke every 4th or 5th stroke, but instead are using a longer sequence of a-m-i or i-a-m-i (or whatever!) ? Any clarification most welcome. Thanks.

Also, when playing flamenco tremolo, how can one be sure every finger is sounding individually and in the right order? I mean, it's fairly easy to play the p-i-a-m-i slowly then gradually speed up until the 'take-off' point when one's fingers become a flurry of motion! But how can one TELL at that speed what's 'going on'? :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 6:30:44

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to MarcChrys)

Well, yes, in Oracion it is played like this: Pami..ami..ami..ami... but i haven´t seen this in any other flamenco piece yet.
It is like playing arpeggio, only instead of 3 different strings, you play it on one string...

But i would say 99.9% of tremolos in flamenco are played p-i-a-m-i.
So i would keep practicing only this type until you are good at it.

Practicing with metronome also helps to create differentiated sound for each note and timing.
Although later you have to create a type of special feeling when playing, specially in Toque Libre (so that i doesnt sound so mechanic like a machinegun)..

btw, here is another nice tremolo section (for a Granaina - from Chicuelo):

Tabs are somewhere in tab section (i made the tabs an year or so ago)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 7:34:53

MarcChrys

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to Arash)

Thanks for the advice and the musical link - his tremolo is nice and soft and 'feathery' (or do I mean 'fluttery'?) :)

Having started with the flamenco tremolo I'm finding it very hard to master the classical tremolo - I KNOW it's just like an p-a-m-i arpeggio on one string, but every time I turn the arpeggio into a tremolo my index finger keeps springing up after the p stroke every time I switch to tremolo! :(

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 7:55:58

Stu

Posts: 2546
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to MarcChrys)

quote:

Tabs are somewhere in tab section (i made the tabs an year or so ago)

here,

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=78934&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 7:59:09

Stu

Posts: 2546
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to Stu)

Hey Arash,

I just checked out your transcription of this tremolo. good stuff man, definitely gonna learn it.

one thing though....

I remember when you originally posted this I couldn't help but notice it was transcribe at 320bpm.

and was gonna ask a couple of questions about transcribing tremolo...

This is how I'd normally transcribe it in GTpro5

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 8:43:51

Stu

Posts: 2546
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to Stu) 1 votes

and your transcription was like this...

I'm not sure how important this point is but I would think it is better to transcribe tremolo in semiquavers and at something near a reasonable bpm.. maybe I'm wrong??

If you tried to transcribe the rest of this piece at 320bpm I think it would be extremely difficult and very very fast...

I'm not criticising just thought I'd discuss.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 8:46:20

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to MarcChrys)

Hey Stu, you are totally right. Thanks for the advice.
You know, i just wanted to have somthing where you can see the Tabs and didnt pay much attention to the rest and just increased the speed at that time to make the tremolo speed sound normal.

And i am very bad in theory, Notes, etc. I usually dont transcribe anything.
This was an exception because i really wanted to learn this tremolo.
Thanks to point this out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 9:04:59

Stu

Posts: 2546
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to Arash)

hey cool man,

I'm very glad you reminded me of this tab that you made as, I love this piece and never got around to learning it the first time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 9:29:04

omega0684

Posts: 41
Joined: Nov. 5 2008

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to MarcChrys)

i play my flamenco tremolo p-m-a-m-i

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2009 12:21:07

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Tremolo Variations (in reply to MarcChrys)

I believe the trémolo in Oración is piamiamiami, etc.

You should hear the stories from Ricardo et al. about all the trémolos they learned with Núñez in Sanlúcar!

Marc, as for your main question, you'll find that the more you practice it (slowly, speeding up gradually over time), the more natural it becomes. I'm trying to learn the classical pami trémolo because, well, it's a good thing to have, but damn, that extra i just keeps sneaking in! Like anything you practice enough, it becomes natural eventually, and you'll be surprised how little time it takes.

(The explicit answer to your explicit question, BTW, is that you don't consciously double-check which fingers you're using and when, you'll just know that it's right

)