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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to n85ae)
quote:
Further, I think a company with the resources that for example Yamaha has, if they made a corporate decision to do it, I would bet money they could make guitars that would easily compete against Conde, or any other guitar maker.
Of course that would require them to make the decision in the first place to do it. However with the money they have, and the facilities they have they certainly could do it.
Jeff
I'm a bit conservative and old-fashioned and dislike changes to the world I grew up in. But I'm afraid and sad to say, I think your right there Jeff!
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to cathulu)
quote:
See, now I know why luthier built guitars are so darn expensive...
The luthier goes into the woods, spend a few days looking for a tree, and then a few more dragging pieces of it out. It is all very romantic and earthy, but can't a labourer be hired at $10/hour for a lot of that while the luthier does the more important job of building guitars?
Or how about the luthier spends 100 hours french polishing the guitar. What?
Does a luthier built guitar only have the hands of that luthier on it? If yes, what is wrong if they sub some of this work to cheap labour and concentrate on the important stuff to lower the price of the guitars and the waiting list. I guess the question is "are luthiers making musical instruments or are they making artwork that can play a note"?
It is like a nite-club where patrons are forced to line-up outside while inside it is half empty. Just my opinion... I hope it doesn't look like I am trolling, I think it is a legitimate question... but way off topic.
To be completrely honest, I did not like this post at all. absolutely nothing in it. OK? Sorry, I´m not going to follow up, I fortunately have other things to do.
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to n85ae)
quote:
Further, I think a company with the resources that for example Yamaha has, if they made a corporate decision to do it, I would bet money they could make guitars that would easily compete against Conde, or any other guitar maker.
Of course that would require them to make the decision in the first place to do it. However with the money they have, and the facilities they have they certainly could do it.
Jeff
With all the respect of Yamaha, I must disagree. Yamaha have never been famous for making anything real top. They have tried and where they have been close has been in pianos. But nothing like a Steinway or a Bösendorfer. I have owned a couple of Yamaha steel strings, and really great instruments for their price, but I´ve never played or heard anything that really inspired me from Yamaha. Ask around. Ask professionals about clarinets, saxophones, trumpets, drums or whatever. Great quality yes.......... but maybe they just didn´t invest enough money. (money money money must be funny)
...I have never played, seen, heard, or heard about it, and probably that says it all, and this guitar came out in 2003. It appears to be no longer in their catalogue either.
So let's say unless they hired an Anders clone for every step of production, what you suggest is nearly impossible based on the risk for quality control. There is too much care and knowledge required in every step, from my vantage point... I mean just look at Per Hallgren's recent photo diary.
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to cathulu)
quote:
Or how about the luthier spends 100 hours french polishing the guitar.
Some luthiers sub FP to other craftsman, they buy rosettes, fret wire, tuners, saddles, nuts, bridges…
There are different business models. Good instruments can be made by an apprentice. There’s a reason certain makers and luthiers have great reputations. I can hear it in the mp3’s posted online. I’ve never heard a cheap guitar sound as good.
A friend of mine purchased a Yamaha 12 string, shallow-body acoustic guitar 20 years ago for $1,200. The action was way too high and the neck was bent (and not cupped the way it should have been). I tried explaining this to him for about a year. He ended up sending it to Yamaha for repair and they replaced it at no charge and this was after an additional year of trying to have it adjusted.
Yamaha equipment has everything to do with a level of quality that can be had at a certain (lower) price point—no more, no less. If Yamaha wanted to produce the highest quality guitars I can’t imagine them succeeding, but I’d be willing to bet a few of their luthiers could do it on their own.
In the end Ricardo is right: If you’re overwhelmingly impressed by a guitar’s tone and playability that’s what counts the most. It's too bad many of us can't afford better instruments...
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to Ron.M)
People often scan read things, and simply miss the point.
Yamaha could, if they decided to. That's the point.
quote:
With all the respect of Yamaha, I must disagree. Yamaha have never been famous for making anything real top. They have tried and where they have been close has been in pianos. But nothing like a Steinway or a Bösendorfer. I have owned a couple of Yamaha steel strings, and really great instruments for their price, but I´ve never played or heard anything that really inspired me from Yamaha. Ask around. Ask professionals about clarinets, saxophones, trumpets, drums or whatever. Great quality yes.......... but maybe they just didn´t invest enough money. (money money money must be funny)
Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to Ron.M)
Epilogue Our local mom-and-pop shop recently acquired a Yamaha CG171SF. They made a business decision to begin offering more Yamaha acoustics and this flamenca was the very first of their new inventory line-up. It was an unexpected coincidence that I came upon this guitar. They had just unboxed it and hung it up for display. The tone was just right and it played easier than many other guitars that I had tried.
The co-owner knew me and offered the guitar for $267; a substantial discount. Needless to say, I bought it without a second thought.
RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
To answer the original question ... probably not. Find a guitar setup for flamenco and if you like the tone and action and the price is in your range, buy it. It doesn't matter what others think. I bought a small polish made guitar on sale for my Grandaughter and installed a golpe plate, lowered the action, and put on a set of LaBella strings. It sounded and played great for a beginner flamenco. Total cost including strings, etc. $125.
Cathulu, In time you will know the difference in the sound of the fine guitars at Zavelletas. It is a personal preference, not that one sounds lousy and the other fantastic, just different ... one sweeter, one louder, one more rasp, one more substain, and another more growl on the basses. Also some may hear a difference in the Granada makers sound compared to the Madrid makers sound.
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