Cante Vocal Appreciation

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cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

Cante Vocal Appreciation 1 votes

I was listening to the Queen of the Night Aria from die Zauberflote (Diana Damrau) and it is cool to hear the highest note in standard repetoire, the F6.

Anyways, that got me wondering about the vocal register of cante singers. Do they fit within the normal ranges? Can we take a stab at identifying popular cante singers into soprano, mezzo-soprano, contralto, tenor, baritone, bass?

I say I don't know much about this and have nothing to contribute but the question, but it would be cool to explore and listen to the differences on youtube. Has anyone thought about it? Highest note and lowest note in cante?

Then I read this... I have seen this a few times regarding cante

"Application of intervals smaller than a half-tone, enharmonic modulations, relatively narrow range (not extending the sixth), and a rhythm not subordinated to metre are characteristic for the vocal expression."

So the cante in general ranges over a sixth, 4 1/2 tones? Say from E to C in the E phrygian mode? Any examples for and contrary to this?

Thoughts??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2009 10:50:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to cathulu) 1 votes

I would say baritone to mezzo soprano. Extremeño to Paquera. But flamenco singers often don't sing in what would be their "classical" range, and that makes their personal sound. For example, many female singers sing lower than they can IMO. Many male singers push themselves to go higher. In addition, many flamenco singers have special "flamenco" singing voice which might be different than their normal speaking voice or even lyrical singing voice. Examples are Chocolate, Carmen linares, Jose merce. All of whom I have heard sing an example or two in their "natural" voice. Some singers sing with just throat or nose, others open voice like opera, and still others just yell. There are many styles methods.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 18:42:03

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to cathulu)

I've asked this question before, but never received a satisfactory answer...

How do they get these voices? Most famous cantaores have a very raspy voice (en espanol, le deria rajo).

Is this something learned, or something you have to be born with?

LOL If I could learn a bit of this, I could kill at Joe Cocker songs on Karaoke night.

Seriously though, has anyone ever seen instructional material on cante? I'd like to see it because I have an enquiring mind.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 20:17:29

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to cathulu) 1 votes

Ex, There are many "roncos" in Spain. A lot of people speak with that raspy voice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 23:08:53

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Ex, There are many "roncos" in Spain. A lot of people speak with that raspy voice.

So is it the chicken or the egg?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 23:23:04

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao
How do they get these voices? Most famous cantaores have a very raspy voice (en espanol, le deria rajo).

I would have thought a bit of untrained hollering would soon have your voice sounding 'afonica' (or as Anders says, like a snorer)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2009 2:20:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to andresito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: andresito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao
How do they get these voices? Most famous cantaores have a very raspy voice (en espanol, le deria rajo).

I would have thought a bit of untrained hollering would soon have your voice sounding 'afonica' (or as Anders says, like a snorer)

I have two friends from Bolivia that developed the flamenco, or "gypsy" sound over many years of practice. So it can be "learned" to some extent, but in spain it is depends on the individual. I will say that IMO, if you are not born with the instrument, the voice, then it doesn't help much to train it. There for sure are pop singers or rock singers or whatever, that were born with voices that could work great for flamenco, but of course they never trained that way, and often in the wrong country.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2009 3:54:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

How do they get these voices? Most famous cantaores have a very raspy voice (en espanol, le deria rajo).

Is this something learned, or something you have to be born with?

Nah!

100 Ducados and half a bottle of cheap Spanish brandy a day and staying up till 4 in the morning normally does the trick.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2009 4:40:20

runner

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to cathulu)

I think the voz afillá or rajo can be both innate and acquired. Somebody like La Fernanda or Juan Talegas, I believe, cannot sing without rajo, but, going to Rock singers, for example, Janis Joplin supposedly had a wonderful voice free of rajo and could sing that way whenever she chose; ditto for Joan Osborne, who reveals very little rajo on an album like Relish, but tons of it on her early recordings.

runner

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2009 5:53:20

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Cante Vocal Appreciation (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

How do they get these voices? Most famous cantaores have a very raspy voice (en espanol, le deria rajo).

Is this something learned, or something you have to be born with?

Nah!

100 Ducados and half a bottle of cheap Spanish brandy a day and staying up till 4 in the morning normally does the trick.

cheers,

Ron

I remember a Columbian neighbour back home came back from vacation with a bottle of Columbian agua ardiente...
It was made from aniz and looked as clear as purified ice water, and smelt like licorice.
After a sip, you had to whisper.

Unfortunately, the effects didn't last. I can't sing Flamenco, or even a passable version of Love Hurts.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2009 8:53:51