To Henrik and Jerzy

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To Henrik and Jerzy

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

To Henrik and Jerzy

This question is also for anyone else, but specifically for Henrik and Jerzy and any other speedsters here. Now, as far as picado, I had reached a pretty nice facility, being able to play sixteenth notes at around 175-180 for well-rehearsed, easy scales. I noticed a horrible thing the last few weeks, of having lost this ability, and struggling to pull off a big picado run at even 115 or so! I have been practicing a lot lately, about 3-6 hours a day, but hardly any picado (i am doing classical guitar exercises from Ricardo Iznaola's Kitharalogus, a regimen that lasts about an hour and a half).

Tonight, much to my relief, after a half hour or so or scales I got them back up to speed.

I was wondering if anyone has had the experience of having their picado deteriorate badly after not practicing it awhile. Is picado something that must be kept up, or like riding a bike?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 3:11:00

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

HI.
For me picado only "works" after 2-3days of practice. Im in a situation where i havent played any guitar for more than a week. (i have moved to another city and while me and my girl friend are looking for an apartment my guitar is in another place)
I know that when i start to play again my picado,arpegios and rasgueados will be quite bad for a day or two. My picado will be the most difficult techniqe to recover.
I wonder why my picking techniqe never fails on my electric guitar? 1-2 months can pass between my electric guitar playing still i don´t lose my chops. How do you guy´s practice picado? i never play fast. I keep my metronome at 60-90 bpm. the only thing i change are the note falue.Triplets,sixtheent notes, quintuplets etc. The easyest way (for me) to recover techniqe is to play eight notes scales,cromatic stuff etc at 90-100 bpm.
Just to get my fingers moving again.
English is not my language but i hope this wasn´t to confuseing

Henrik

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 7:39:29

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Your English is fine. It is reassuring to me that this happens to you, too! Interestingly, though, I don't get back my picado from playing slowly. It usually takes me working up the scales from 80 bpm all the way up, using 20 bpm jumps, playing quarters, eighths, triplets, then sixteenths in each one. The whole process takes 15 minutes or so.

I have noticed that my fast arpeggios deteriorate too, if I don't work on them.

I wonder if I should incorporate a fast scales and arpeggios section in my daily morning routine so that I never lose them...

Incidentally, in Paco's biography, he claims that he doesn't practice anymore, that "I have played a lot of guitar and when you play that much you don't have to practice." I wonder if this can be believed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 15:39:21

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hello.
I suggest keeping "everything" in your practice routine. I do arpegio,picado,rasgueados and alzapúa Every time i practice. But what i do is to put extra time on one or two things every time. If I play for 4hrs i focus on picado 2hrs and the other stuff is divided into the other 2hrs. Then i change this around depending on what i want to focus on for that week or month or day. Sometitmes I get inspired to practice just one thing and then i do that.

quote:

when you play that much you don't have to practice."

Well. Paco has spent like 10hrs a day from 5-7years old to 18 or 20years old
practicing every flamenco techniqe. so when you reach a certain level im sure 300 gigs a year will do to keep your chops up.
Then you have to keep in mind that we are just "lesser mortals" (or how ever the expression is).

Henrik

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 15:56:18

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Henrik,
that's a lot of time. I have read that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to become a virtuoso. How long have you put in ? :)

300 gigs is a lot. My goal is 100 for next year and that's pushing it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 16:19:12

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

éllo.
I wish it was that "easy" 10 000hrs and thats it!

I have played for 5 years now and i have spent maybe 2-3 hrs at least. If im on a roll maybe 4-6hrs a day. Put it´s far from being focused practice. Composeing take up alot of time for me. Working on old ideás arranging them in to a musical pice can take 5hrs
and still end up like nothing. So i play a lot but it´s not all practiceing picados and techniqe. Im 29 years old. so when im 39 i should have reached a decent level of techniqe.

About the gigs. i was talking about Pdl. I have only hade 3 flamenco gigs. But ****loads
of Jazz gigs and punk and rock gigs. (i´ve played electric guitar for 15 years).

Henrik

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 16:32:28

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Henrik,
I'm 29, too, will be 30 in August. Since we're the same age, it will be interesting to see how our careers go!

I have been playing 14 years, started electric and classical. Have been playign flamenco about 4 years... :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2004 21:11:04

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hi! Im was wondering. Did you have any advantage since you played classical guitar?
in picado and arpeggios? I had never played with my fingers before i started playing flamenco. And i have always felt that it would have been easier at least in the beginning
if i had some experiense playing with my fingers.
A funny thing is that i "out played" many of the classical students at my university.
Technicaly that is. Not when it comes to sound and tone. I don´t want to diss classical guitar but i wonder why..

.ooh by the way If you practice 6hrs a day it will take 4,6 years to get 10 000hrs. I belive that won´t make us virtuosos only technicaly good.
I belive that a virtuoso must have a good social/cultural background to begin with.
Otherwise all the hours in the world don´t make a diffrence.

Henrik

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 7:34:13

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Henrik, according to the study I am citing, 6 hours is not sustainable, but 4 is. Therefore it will take 10 years. When I say 4, I don't mean 2 hours of scales and 2 hours of messing around or gigging. Practice. Scales, arpeggios, theory study, perfecting pieces, working on rhythm. The rest doesn't count! :)

I think knowing classical is an advantage, technique-wise for flamenco. They are very similiar and such things as independence of the RH fingers would certainly be advanced. Also the chords and positions in classical are more similiar to flamenco than other styles (I believe). And of course the classical guitar is very similiar to the flamenco guitar.

On the other hand, the sense of rhythm would be very much more developed in other styles such as jazz and even rock. The way of playing aggressively, so important in flamenco, is not encouraged among classicals.

But I must confess that my years of playing classical were never very devoted, that is a recent thing for me about 3-4 years. Before that it was almost all "playign around," not really practicing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 15:57:15

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 17:25:32

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Guest)

Any cromatic exercise would be fine. To keep your hands syncronised is important.
If you can get the book "pumping nylon" by scott tennant you´d be set for life.
Everything you nead to know about practising and techniqes are in the book,even some flamenco like, rasgueados and alzapua.

Henrik

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 17:47:30

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: To Henrik and Jerzy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Andy,
yes Pumping Nylon is essential. Basically do chromatic exercises for coordination and hand position. There is also a stacatto exercise which involves playing a note and immediately muting it with the nextfinger, to encourage speed. Finally I recommend "targeting" notes, the idea of breaking down a long scale into beats. 1 e and a 2. 2 e and a 3. Play the beats, think the rhythm, one by one then start stringing them together. Here you will isolate the one or two or three little areas where you are struggling.

Of course you will need to practice your scales a lot too. The above is mostly speed studies.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 18:03:52

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 19:50:50

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2004 19:59:19