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Tanguillos - help!
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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 Tanguillos - help!
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I play most palos, but modern Tanguillos none. I have played some of the old style Tanguillo in the past (and even accompanied some old fashioned choreography in a class once), but modern Tanguillo seems really different.
The old one seems fairly straightforward Takata Takata 6/8, but the modern one sounds like Taka Taka Tan 1&2&3, with the stress on Tan, the 3.
Is this right? or am I hearing this wrong? Is what I think is 3 really the 1?
I have read that it's laying 3/4 over the 6/8 so that 1&2&3& corresponds to 1&+ 2&+, but I can't seem to really hear it or feel it or whatever.
Also, it's not a palo that there seems to be much material about for, either didactical or transcriptions or whatever, the only Encuentro samples I know about are Merengue De Cordoba doing the old style, and the Gerardo Nunez one (which doesn't seem like such a good place to start). I could do with some sort of basic intro stuff, plenty of compas, and some nice falsetas to get my teeth into..... any ideas? I'm not asking for free tabs or whatever (but hey, I never refuse!), but if anyone could make recommendations or point me in the right direction, that would be great.
I'm thinking about the Manolo Franco `Guitarra Flamenca` volume on Tanguillo, but not sure about this series.... (see other thread about these).
Thanks optimistically in advance
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 4 2008 11:57:08
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Tanguillos - help! (in reply to mark indigo)
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ok, so dumb-ass here forgot that the first port of call for any enquiry should be the foro archive, and sure enough there have been a few tanguillo queries....
1)
quote:
I still hear 2/4, 3/4 and 6/8. In some interpretations the 3rd beat of 3/4 is accented and gives a bulerias feel. Of course the 6/8 also does and I think some people take advantage of that fact to give a different feel to same falseta, kind of liie a variation based on the shadings. (romerito)
Sure you HEAR it. But just a steady contra beat with no reference might SOUND like it is on the beat too. In bulerias those ami arp falsetas are always felt like a syncopation. Otherwise it would be like tangos in 12/8. It is not supposed FEEL like that even though it SOUNDS like that. Exact opposite with Tanguillo. It is supposed to FEEL like 6/8 or 12/8, and the 3/4 is the syncopation. That accented 3rd beat is OFF beat. That is why it is a little tangos. (Ricardo)
2)
quote:
could somebody make a tanguillos lesson or something i always end up in zapateado style what is the basic strumming pattern for a more modern tanguillos? or the difference between that and the tanguillos de Cadiz. (duende)
Not much difference except that the modern version usually sticks to the 6/8 feel, syncopated triplets vs. a 2/4 up beat feel. Actually it is still "up beat" but the second note of the triplet group is the up beat, where as in a lot of other music styles, the 3rd triplet note is the up beat or swing feel.
1=down with golpe or only golpe
&=up
ah=down
2=up
&=DOWN ACCENTED
ah=up
It really is just that simple. Now you can play with the "&ah" part so that it either gallops like I wrote with spaces after beat 1 and 2, OR you just do all the strokes perfectly EVEN like triplets. Either way you still accent that down stroke, the & after beat 2. That is important. Use a metronome to click 1,2, and play around with the feel of the other strokes. Sometimes I will play beat 1 like a gallop, and beat two like a triplet, with that "&" accent earlier than you expect. Helps to keep your foot on 1 and 2 with the metronome, so you get that inside.
You can sub for the "&ah" after beat 1, a rasgueado of your choice (pai, ami, eami, etc) so long as you end it on beat 2 with an UP stroke, like p up or i up. That is important for the feel of the pattern. (Ricardo)
3)
X . . X : _
1 2 3 2 2 3
If you look at the X's you will notice a duple meter.
The foot would tap on these beats. The claps go on the 2 periods and the colon with an accent on the colon. The periods imply . (+) . (2) and the colon implies 3. If you isolate the parts, the X's = 1-2 of a duple meter and the periods and colon imply +2-3 of a triple meter.
That colon is VERY important. It gives an accent that is often described as tumbao (a word borrowed from the salsa/merengue vernacular that loosely means syncopated, more literally "Thrown")
That accent on three can morph into the 4 of a 4/4 tanguillos very easily. The real time difference between the two is just a hair and you can hear the difference in pieces such as Melchor's tanguillos often. There is a switch from compound (6/8 with the polyrhythmic 3/4 also implied ) to a quick 4/4. The quick 4/4 is where the tanguillos gets its name. A quick tangos, the diminutive of the word implies a "small" or quick version.
Now, some people take advantage of the "colon" beat (colon because that is how I tried to illustrate it-NOT THE ACTUAL TERMINOLOGY  ) which implies a 3rd beat of triple meter.
12--1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10--11--12
3----1--2--3--1--2--3--1--2--3--1---2-----3
If you square the tanguillos rhythm and place the bulerias ryhtm above it you see that the 12 of a bulerias coincides with the 3(colon beat ) of the tanguillos.
Some composers take advantage of this to imply a slow bulerias or quick solxbul. (romerito)
these from several different threads, but i still don't really get it, especially 3). Have only included the explanations here, missed off the bits that say it takes years of listening and playing to get it. Question is, if i should just play it, what should i play?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 4 2008 14:22:30
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Ricardo
Posts: 14887
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Tanguillos - help! (in reply to mark indigo)
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quote:
The old one seems fairly straightforward Takata Takata 6/8, but the modern one sounds like Taka Taka Tan 1&2&3, with the stress on Tan, the 3.
Is this right? or am I hearing this wrong? Is what I think is 3 really the 1?
My advice is to learn it in 2/4 with the metronome FIRST. meaning, learn that old one. Once you get the feel, you make it feel like triplets. That is called 6/8. The metronome does not change, just YOU change where you feel the up beats. I don't really think that old tanguillo is much different rhythmically, of course the music is different, but the basic beat is the same. So gitanos do Rumba SOMETIMES, with this little special swing that is making the up beat come a hair early, which is really just like Tanguillos. That is why a lot of rumberos like tanguillos too. But the 3/4 or overylaying bulerias IMO, is complicating the thing beyond what it really is.
Just feel it in two beats, and accent the "&"s. It is that simple.
1 &ah2 &ah1 &ah2 & is the 2/4 feel.
1&ah2&ah1&ah2& is the 6/8 feel.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 5 2008 5:20:43
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