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Picado on low E string?   You are logged in as Guest
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mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

Picado on low E string? 
The low E keeps messing up my runs.. it's like hitting the brakes.

How do you stop your fingers when playing picado on the low E string? Do you stop and turn in mid air? I've taken it for granted that you don't touch anything after hitting the E string. But then, how do you make those free strokes become rest strokes in spirit, after hitting the string do you let the finger follow trough the entire motion or do you brake the travel to keep the movements small? Is it wrong to touch the soundboard, or the pad of your thumb?

If I turn in mid air I'm having trouble matching the speed and snap of the other strings. On the other hand If I let the fingers follow through all the way to the soundboard I get snap, but the movements become really large!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2008 16:26:56
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta)1 votes
Maybe you can pick up something from this YouTube video by Grisha. He does a fast IM alternation on the low E about 20 seconds into the video. The song is Danza Arabe by Sabicas.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2008 16:36:06
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
cripes! hadn't seen this video before.. the guy is phenomenal.

I does look like large movements on the low E string.. I've been looking at clips of Gerardo Nunez, sometimes large movements, sometimes ultra-compact but always crisp, snapping clarity. These monster players, their fingers are such honed devices, they have 'the extended palette of picado technique' and seem to be able to do it any way they like.. things get punchy even with tirando on all strings.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2008 17:09:32
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta)1 votes
quote:

sometimes large movements, sometimes ultra-compact but always crisp, snapping clarity. These monster players, their fingers are such honed devices, they have 'the extended palette of picado technique' and seem to be able to do it any way they like..


In the Grisha vid the larger movements appear to be faster than the smaller movements! I've come to the same conclusion about better players being able to execute a technique any way they like.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2008 17:17:20
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
quote:

The low E keeps messing up my runs.. it's like hitting the brakes.

How do you stop your fingers when playing picado on the low E string? Do you stop and turn in mid air? I've taken it for granted that you don't touch anything after hitting the E string. But then, how do you make those free strokes become rest strokes in spirit, after hitting the string do you let the finger follow trough the entire motion or do you brake the travel to keep the movements small? Is it wrong to touch the soundboard, or the pad of your thumb?


i dunno how the other more-advanced-than-me players on here will answer this, but i'm looking forward to learning something about this from them...

...in the meantime i would say one approach you could take (ie i'm not saying this is the one true definitive answer - but then there probably isn't one of those...) to this problemo is to practise the whole run free stroke for a while, see if you can get the same power, speed etc., or as close as you can, then when you go back to playing the top 5 strings rest stroke it shouldn't be such a problem when you get to the bottom E string in a run or whatever.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2008 2:47:33
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
Hi MrM. and greetings.

I have had problems with the same thing and found a very effective way of addressing it. What I did was turn it on its head. I practiced playind short runs from the low E note up and back so that I am building securtiy from this note. I start with my thumb on the soundboard and use both rest stroke and free strokes. Firstly I will play up to the A on fifth string then B,C, D string E,F ...etcetera.

When I hit the A string I get my thumb off the body and onto the low E string. This move (back and forward with the thumb for two different secure positions) can be really useful.

The hand gets used to feeling secure on the low notes and you get a kind of 'gravity' pulling you there which is what a lot of flamenco runs are all about.

Hope that helps.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2008 6:08:01
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to guitarbuddha) 
quote:

I practiced playind short runs from the low E note up and back so that I am building securtiy from this note. I start with my thumb on the soundboard and use both rest stroke and free strokes. Firstly I will play up to the A on fifth string then B,C, D string E,F ...etcetera.


when i was thinking about the original question, and writing my first reply, i was thinking about how i often practise scales starting on, and returning to, the 6th string, and (obviously) use free stroke on that string and rest stroke on the other 5.

i just couldn't think of a way to make it into an effective exercise, but this sounds like it would work fine!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2008 9:47:57
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
i got this tip from william kanengiser's effortless classical guitar video.

when doing rest strokes on all strings but the low e, you always have an adjacent string to rest on. when you do it on the low e, you've got nothing. so what i do is leave my thumb there as though there's a 7th string and play the i and m fingers into my thumb. that way, it has something to bounce into and off of and it doesn't feel like running in outer space. i'm just a beginner trying to learn too and this tip has helped me a bit. good luck!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2008 11:43:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
It is the same as any other free stroke technique...the same feeling as tremolo, arpeggio, tirando scales and melodies etc. It would be good to focus on some passages that mix arpeggios with scales, but where you don't actually shift into apoyando strokes.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2008 23:33:58
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta) 
Ricardo and GBuddha thanks for the practicing suggestions.

Leo, I had the same thought of using the thumb.. but i'm having trouble with it. the thumb has to be so close to the index and middle finger tips that it makes my ringers feel cramped/strained.. perhaps it depends to anatomy in some extent.. but then, doing arpeggios the thumb is often very close to the tips of the other fingers as well.

Cheers,
Z.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2008 18:23:17
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Picado on low E string? (in reply to mrMagenta)1 votes
If you like GB’s suggestion about the thumb you should look at this video by Javier Conde.



In the first few seconds of this Zapateado Javier runs a scale with IM while using his thumb as a guide on the sound board. He does the same thing at 1:20 and uses his thumb in a similar fashion whenever he does IM alternations.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2008 20:47:50
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