my first public performance

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Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

my first public performance

Well I've finally done it - played solo in public! I've been learning for nearly 18 months now, so I guess it was about time to get out there

I'd organised an end of course performance for the guitar course that's just finished in London. It was at a really nice Spanish bar called Camino. The two classes played what they had learnt on the course, and then a few people played solos. I'd been practising like crazy, but actually decided I wouldn't play - thought it was enough doing the organising and didn't want to get completely stressed out. But somehow I ended up doing it!

I played a Tientos-Tangos, in which I borrowed from everyone to make a piece I liked - the course teacher, teacher of group classes in Oxford, and even stole a funky rhythm from Ricardo's tangos (it's OK I bought the tab!). I also made up an introduction out of Ron's Lazy Tientos!! So as you see I'm not afraid to nick other people's ideas - but I do always credit them

Well it wasn't brilliant, but I made it through to the end. What I learnt is that my fingers get shaky, but thank goodness what I had feared didn't happen. I thought I might get a complete mind-blank, that the whole piece would go straight out of my head, but it didn't. I remembered what I had to do and where to put my fingers - now just need to make them do it........

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 2:08:03

Matic

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Ole Ailsa!
I'm very happy for you.
You are a real hero in my eyes and a person with the attitude I'd like to have.

_____________________________

vengo de los san migueles
si no me caso este año que yo
me caso el año que viene

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 2:35:20

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Congratulations Ailsa. It takes a lot of guts to do that, and on top of organising the whole thing, good on you for going ahead, wish I had been there. Did you record it ?

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 2:44:30

Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Well done Ailsa!!!

So sorry I didn't come!!

Its complicated and I don't wanna bore you!

It sounds like it went very well!
Congrats
Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 2:46:53

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Did you record it ?

No, and I hid the vid camera so no-one else could

Next time, I promise....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 5:55:52

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Hey well done Ailsa!
I'm totally useless at playing in front of folk unless I'm p**sed at a party...then I'm completely useless anyway! LOL!

quote:

I thought I might get a complete mind-blank

Yeah, I get that all the time.
Even going into a shop to buy a newspaper...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2008 12:44:10

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

congratulations Ailsa

you should be proud, its very very hard...my body just wasent responding to what i wanted it to do the first time lol

i might have even frozen lol and the sad thing is i wasent even the only guitar there was about another 3 of us playing so i dont know why i reacted the way i did lol

you slowly keep conquering more of yourself and nerves everytime you do it again

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 2:56:58

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Florian)

great stuff ailsa, please record it when you can it'd be great to see it.

ive done an open mic thing in the students union bar for the last few weeks trying to get used to playing in front of people, i froze and screwed up when i played a piece in sanlucar this year, i had this siguiriyas down, played it in front of friends etc, nerves really got to me (my left hand went to jelly for some reason) and i made a promise to myself to "tame" the nerves and jitters i got.

its been going well so far, (no boo's yet) i never had problems with public speaking did it in secondary schooll and university but with a guitar in my hands im a bag of nerves for some reason,

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 4:47:11

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: my first public performance (in reply to henrym3483)

quote:

its been going well so far, (no boo's yet) i never had problems with public speaking did it in secondary schooll and university but with a guitar in my hands im a bag of nerves for some reason,

I read somewhere that in an anxiety-provoking situation fine motor skills are the first thing to go. After all that practice if you freeze what do you have to show for it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 6:34:24

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

I read somewhere that in an anxiety-provoking situation fine motor skills are the first thing to go.

I wonder why that is?
What is nature's intent here?
I mean what good is fumbling or shaking in a "fight or flight" situation?

Anyway it's a curse. When you get it bad it's like having glue inbetween your fingers and no strength or co-ordination.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 6:54:40

Ramirez

Posts: 243
Joined: Apr. 16 2005

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Stage fright is quite a destructive phenomenon is it not?

I suffer from debilitating stage fright myself. It's got to the point where even playing for family and friends is a source of dread. I practice a lot, and have pride in my playing, yet after a couple of drinks, someone will inveriably fetch my guitar and demand I play something.

What follows is generally horrible for me: much sweating and fingers that feel as though they're moving through treacle.

If you actually heard me, you would never guess that I practice at all...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 7:16:59

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

After all that practice if you freeze what do you have to show for it?

The memory that you had the balls to get up and give it crack rather than being a bedroom or sitting room player for the rest of ones life. flamenco is very much a social thing and participation is key if you want to learn (Unless your like Rafael del Águila)

last week, i had no issues played a tientos-tangos loads of people talking, squaking and pint glasses chinking and just blocked everything out and focused on the the music. i think as well im not thinking about being in front of flamenco peers, ie thinking about duffing up the compas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 7:22:29

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: my first public performance (in reply to henrym3483)

Unlike fear which requires an object such as a charging lion, etc., anxiety is a far more complicated phenomenon. I think in some ways it can have a great deal to do with aspects of our social nature. I saw an interview of Garth Brooks discussing how he froze during his first recording session with James Taylor. Taylor walked over to him and hugged him. After that Brooks was able to sing and play again. Irv Yalom described research that concluded people had higher scores on an intellectual test when the subliminal message “Mommy and I are one” was flashed on a screen between questions. In this case people who on an emotional level equated success with maternal separation would be more likely to score higher if they found such a statement calming and if being calm enabled them to concentrate or perform better. Of course some people score higher in a hostile situation. Anxiety related to the fear of offending someone you are dependent upon can be another, similar theme.

Karen Horney describes stage fright as the outcome of a process in which self-destructive impulses interfere with a person’s ability to perform in a social situation. If a person’s preference is to remain detached from their own emotions as well as other people then a public performance is likely to lead to anxiety. A self-effacing person might be fearful of being too assertive by performing in public and an aggressive person might be uncomfortable expressing emotions other than anger in a public situation. It comes down to what a person believes he/she should and should not do that makes anxiety a likely possibility.

These are examples. Of course there are many other theories all of which have some utility. Finding the appropriate circumstances that cause stage fright for a specific individual is the best approach.

If you are interested in self-help you have options to deal with this. You could perform frequently and decrease the novel, anxiety provoking aspect of performing in public (stimulus flooding). Receiving validation from someone like Gerardo would go a long way to help some people. Frank Gallo’s book “Energy Tapping” has a protocol for “Improving Your Sports Performance” and managing performance anxiety and fears. While I think the theory behind Thought Field Therapy (TFT) is incorrect the practice can yield good results in a short period of time. Outside the USA people can obtain a device without a doctor’s prescription for a CES (Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation) device which can be effective in reducing anxiety. There are also cognitive/behavioral protocols for altering patterns of thought. Eastern forms of meditation/mindfulness have made their way into this latter type of intervention within the last few decades because they can actually change the structure of parts of the brain if performed consistently over a period of years. It is best to consult a therapist/physician before you try anything described here. The next level is therapy and the use of drugs—especially antidepressants. Hypnosis can also be used alone or in conjunction with any of these treatments.

Henry, I wasn’t trying to discourage you or anyone from performing. It can be such a disappointment to put in all that effort and not be able to play on the level you usually do just because the context in which you are playing is different.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 8:32:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

well done Ailsa!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 9:18:07

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

I don't think it has much to with being embarrassed or shy. Well, obviously it does, but that's TOO obvious. What I mean is that I think it has more to do with information, usually visual, that you perceive when you look up and see a bunch of people staring at you expectantly. It's like being on top of a tall building and preparing yourself to walk up to the edge: Everything was going fine until I looked down.

Staying focused is so important. At job interviews, first dates, doctor's appointments, etc. people usually manage to squelch the urge to flee. (Tell us if you haven't, it'll probably make for an amusing anecdote

.) I always have to keep thinking, "I know I can do this." I'm not a brilliant guitarist, but I know I can play a few minutes worth of a number of styles. It's a question of imagining the horrible consequences and realizing that you're easily able to avoid them.

I remember a time about 20 years ago that I played for some older guitarist friends in a bar. I'd been going over a bunch of ideas for over a year, and they were very clear in my mind. But when I sat down on that bar stool, it felt like the falsetas had run away to hide in a corner of my shoe! When I'm playing well, it's just the opposite. The rhythm seems to be all around me and it's really easy to play. I think this has to do with distraction. It's like when you daydream and your thoughts become very clear.

Very interesting idea for discussion.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 9:36:49

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Well done Ailsa...very proud of you and will tell Jiongle the news. Just keep playing in front of people. It does get easier the more you do it. I think that to play flamenco guitar in front of an audience with the the amount of time you have been at it is very brave.
Turning stagefright into something positive is a tough trick. Edventually you can learn to use adrenaline to your advantage to play better but thats not 100 % certain. Every now and again I still get jelly fingers too!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 10:18:11

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

quote:

I read somewhere that in an anxiety-provoking situation fine motor skills are the first thing to go.

I wonder why that is?
What is nature's intent here?
I mean what good is fumbling or shaking in a "fight or flight" situation?

Anyway it's a curse. When you get it bad it's like having glue inbetween your fingers and no strength or co-ordination.

There is a third option in response to danger.... play dead. Apparently this is the best option when encountering one of the bear species, can't remember which one! Playing dead involves not breathing either, and I have been told that the shaking fingers that accompany nerves is due to lack of oxygen, the result of tensing up muscles in the body restricting breathing. If you get the shakes, take a deep breath, and then keep taking them (don't overdo it and hyper-ventilate tho')!

Have found that this actually works.

The other thing that works is that a lot of "nerves" is/are caused by internal thought saying things like " i can't do it", "I'm crap" "it's too hard" etc. Most people are not even aware that this is going on. Preventing these and/or countering them with their opposites/positives can also work.

If i feel nervous, tense, or flustered while playing, i just tell myself it's easy and that often is enough to carry me through.... I've had quite a bit of practise at it tho', and done quite a bit of work on performance psychology etc.

Here's a really weird (and slightly digressive) one, which actually sort of contradicts the above: when i approach a fast passage or run, I often think "fast" but due to a lot of crazy mixed up thinking from when i was younger and first performing, i attached the label "fast" to putting in more effort, and to put more effort in i tensed more muscles harder, which impairs coordination and speed, so when approaching those passages i think "slow", then i relax, and go faster!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 11:07:46

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: my first public performance (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

when i was younger and first performing, i attached the label "fast" to putting in more effort, and to put more effort in i tensed more muscles harder, which impairs coordination and speed, so when approaching those passages i think "slow", then i relax, and go faster!

...are we still talking about guitar playing??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 11:18:35

luke.park

Posts: 114
Joined: Dec. 29 2005

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

hey ailsa,

i would love to come see any more performances you may do in or around london, i live in ashford only an hour on the train! as of now im getting myself more involved in the london pena aswell and will make sure i can come to the juerga night etc. anyways congrats on your first perfomance and i hope to meet you soon!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 11:59:05

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa

Well I've finally done it - played solo in public! I've been learning for nearly 18 months now, so I guess it was about time to get out there

Wow that is actually fast! Congratulations! Feel free to share a recording of your performance

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 24 2008 12:06:13

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

If you get the shakes, take a deep breath, and then keep taking them (don't overdo it and hyper-ventilate tho')!

And I've read that exhaling very slowly helps to calm anxiety, maybe because it gets more oxygen into the blood.

quote:

when i was younger and first performing, i attached the label "fast" to putting in more effort, and to put more effort in i tensed more muscles harder, which impairs coordination and speed, so when approaching those passages i think "slow", then i relax, and go faster!
quote:

...are we still talking about guitar playing??

A case of the willies, eh?

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2008 1:04:01

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

What is nature's intent here?
I mean what good is fumbling or shaking in a "fight or flight" situation?

An explanation I've read is that in fight or flight situations we've evolved to redirect blood from our smaller muscle groups (..fingers) to the large ones (..thighs), in order to run away faster etc.

a real bummer for a guitarist. it's so easy to get anxious over your hands.. they might be a bit cold and stiff as you're about to start, so you're feeling slightly uncomfortable and therefore begin feeling your hands more intensely to 'make sure' - you're thinking 'oh, ****. my hands really are getting cold' and because of the emotional response to that thought, they go even colder and now you're getting really anxious, the hands are becoming stiff, and to top it off the signals from to your fingers from your brain are a mess and playing the guitar ends up being like decorating a cake while being chased by a bear.

I have low blood pressure, and often have trouble getting my hands warm. As a result I've got caught in that anxiety loop quite a few times.. learning to handle it better might be the most urgent guitar technique I need to develop.

So congratulations Ailsa! I'd say you're definitely doing the right thing by taking the opportunities to perform in front of audiences, and it's inspiring to the hear about it. Hope to see a clip of the solea you're working on.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2008 2:07:16

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: my first public performance (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

A case of the willies, eh?

Just watch out for those difficult passages

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2008 5:40:07

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Just watch out for those difficult passages

ding dong carry on!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2008 7:44:29

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: my first public performance (in reply to Ailsa)

Wow, I am impressed!

When I first started playing Flamenco (practically from zero, with little musicality in my bones) I figured I would be up on stage playing for dancers within 5 years, that was my goal LOL.

It has been about 10 years and only now would I feel able to play a solea escobilla for a dancer, although I have provided some guitar chord strumming for christmas choirs.

I would love to here you Ailsa! You are inspirational.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2008 11:10:44