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How to learn new chords?
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Ricardo
Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: How to learn new chords? (in reply to Francisco)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Francisco
I mean does it apply to all palos?
No, the ones that are "modal" seem to use that progression. Truely, it is a disguised normal cycle of 5ths progression, that seems to end on the V of a minor key. For example:
Am (dm) G (C) F (bm7b5) E.....There is your iv III II I. But modal really means you only need to have that last chord, E, and the related scale, no real chord "progression". So it is a tricky thing for music theory. In the minor key it is i, VII, VI, V, sounds exactly the same. So how to make that V in minor, really sound like the "I" of the phrygian mode is the point of the whole thing, and the challenge for the western listener to accept. Fandangos modulates to relative major, so that is an important palo to study to understand this modal concept.
So simply put, it is good to think of some flamenco palos as "tonal" meaning they resolve V-I or V-i in minor, and other palos as "modal" or having the phrygian sound.
Modal palos:
Martinete, Siguiriyas, Solea, Solxbul, bulerias, Tientos, Tangos, jaleos.
Tonal palos, major:
Cantiñas, bulerias de cadiz, Guajira, Colombiana, Garrotin, etc
Tonal palos, minor:
Farruca, peteneras, Tangos de malaga,
Some party songs will slip in and out of modal and tonal type harmonies depending on the specific melody, like Rumba, bulerias, Tanguillo, Tangos, and sevillanas. And of course tonal songs, cuple, canciones, boleros, even Rancheras, can be interpreted with flamenco compas, yet the palo name is used.
Fandangos are in a special category that I call a "hybrid". They start and end "modal" but the copla, the main verse calls in very tonal harmony, usually relative major. (In Ephrygian, that means the copla is in C major, with IV-V-I changes). That includes, ALL the fandangos, and there are so many. Malagueñas, Granaina, Taranto and all the cantes de la mina, etc.
Also in they hybrid category you have the mountain cantes like Caña, Polo, Serrana, Verdiales and Rondeñas etc etc, all make liberal use of the relative major, but ultimately end up being "modal".
So, all that complex info ends up being pretty simple from the point of view of accompaniment, once you learn how the songs go. 
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Sep. 18 2008 1:48:36
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: How to learn new chords? (in reply to Güiro)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
So, all that complex info ends up being pretty simple from the point of view of accompaniment, once you learn how the songs go.
hehe, maybe youre right from a flamenco standpoint ricardo. cante determines palo. but i had the impression, that the thread starter could also have asked for some general info on how to approach and understand new chords, or on a more basic level how to understand chords at all?
the structure of a song, in which parts the chords changes etc. are determined by the cante. its very crucial to learn this, no question. you always have to have the leading melody in head. but to get the ear and knowledge to understand whats going on, or even to also use other chords than just the "usual" ones, which maybe even dont find in a cante context, i think this systematical stuff helps. i know very little of it, and it already helped me, because i feel harmonically more "safe" (also in an accompainment situation, which happens too rarely though), because i know more chords and how they interact each other.
_____________________________
Фламенко
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Date Sep. 18 2008 2:17:51
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Mark2
Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: How to learn new chords? (in reply to Güiro)
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If you want to learn new chords, you have a few options. You could buy a book full of chords, such as Ted Greene's or you could listen to flamenco cd's and try to pick out the inversions that the guitarists are using. This latter seems to me to be a better way to sound "flamenco"
Both of those methods would pay dividends. But I think it's also essential for every serious musician to know chord construction, which involves learning a bit of theory. If you understand that a major chord is made up of the root, major 3rd, and 5th of a major scale, then you can configure hundreds of major chord inversions all over the neck. There aren't that many chord types, and the formulas for each can easily be found on the net. Then you could simply construct chord inversions of your liking and write them down on a blank chord diagram, or even better, commit your favorites to memory. You'll always be able to come up with a version of a chord that works for your hands in a particular situation, and you'll never be at a loss for how to play a certain chord.
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Date Sep. 19 2008 9:07:21
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: How to learn new chords? (in reply to Güiro)
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Very important to be familiar with "flamenco chords" as Mark2 mentioned, especially if you want to play other people's material. Learning falsetas depends greatly on realizing what chord shape forms the "foundation" for the idea.
quote:
? Should I figure out chords that I have been playing that I can't name?
Yes, but if you realize that you're lacking in knowledge, you should learn basic theory.
Aside from memorizing all the new chords, you should also think about chord inversions (as Deniz and Mark2 have said) to see how chords relate to each other. Inversions are ways to play the same chord with a different arrangement of the same notes (a different chord shape). For example, look at this inversion of an E major chord:
--0---
--5---
--4---
--6---
--7---
--0---
It's pretty easy to see that it's just a C-major chord shape (inversion) moved up the fretboard to E. But look at this G7 inversion:
------
--6---
--7---
--5---
--5---
--7---
It might not be so obvious that this is just a D7 moved up the fretboard. Here's the D7 chord, just in case the information is useful:
------
--1---
--2---
--0---
--0---
--2---
"Inversion" doesn't have to mean sliding a chord up the fretboard; it just means a different arrangement of the same notes or their octave equivalents.
So, if this is new for you, I think you should do two things: (1) look for ways to use familiar chord shapes to make new chords (you can make E major inversions with C, A and G chord shapes, for example) and (2) use this same idea "the other way around" to analyze new chords that you come across in order to find some kind of familiar chord shape within them.
It's definitely worth the trouble to learn about basic music theory, as Deniz has mentioned, and the list of chords that Ricardo and others have put together is really useful.
If you keep playing long enough, you'll start to recognize the color of a seventh chord or whatever (four or more different notes) as opposed to simple major or minor chords (only three different notes), which is very important in determining the chord shape that a falseta is based on.
Hope this helps!
_____________________________
Be here now.
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Date Sep. 20 2008 1:36:47
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