Rancapino

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Rancapino

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srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

Rancapino

Somebody uploaded some serious Rancapino jams earlier this week. It's all good, but I like this alegrias best:

And I like this Nino de Leo. Just did a quick search on the Foro and didn't find any mention of him. Anyone know this guy?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2008 20:01:18

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to srshea)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 2:15:56

Guest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 2:41:27

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

quote:

it makes me wonder what people on this forum know about cante

Hell Sean we've been saying that to you for months - that we know we don't know enough and wish we did! How about suggesting a way for us wannabe cante experts all to get started?

Ailsa

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 4:54:12

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

nice house

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 5:25:20

Tinbender

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 23 2006

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Ailsa)

I liked it and thought it was entertaining. But I am a beginner and hardly ever post because people on here get torn up quite often lately. I don't know much about flamenco especially cante and I own a POS guitar not a Conde. Some people are really nice though and some ehh.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 5:32:44

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Anybody notice...

I didn't catch that, but I did have a bit of trouble following along at first, so that would explain it, and also helps explain what I like about Nino Leo's playing. You can really see him working; very attuned to and sensitive towards what Rancapino's doing, hustling to keep up and in sync, and, well, accompanying.

Didn't get a chance to read the post above before it was deleted. Am I missing something? Is this not an example of good cante?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 6:35:07

Guest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Ailsa)

Hola Aisla

You need to listen to a lot of good cante: not so easy if you don´t live in Spain. I would suggest starting with cante p´atras (singing for dance), since by definition it has to be tied to the compás. Cante p´alante can have a more elastic approach to compás and is more difficult to understand.

However, in Spain, singing for the dance is regarded as the essential training ground.

Try to find videos of dance, especially when they include fin de fiesta where you can observe how a singer can change the whole ambiente by choice of letras and phrasing. You should also see that some singers are more adept at this than others.

I learned by accompanying a great friend who was one of the most complete and knowledgeable singers in Cádiz and knew exactly how he wanted his guitar played, but this route is not open to everybody.

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 6:50:04

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

Sorry to dissapoint the Cante fetishists but I think the days where the guitarists were only accompaniest of singers and played an Alegrias with 2 chords (like in this Video) are over.

The guitarists are much much better nowadays than 30 or 40 years ago and they deserve an equal place in a music group, same
like the singer. They are not hand clappers you know. They are guitarists! Stop singing sometimes and let them play some falsetas too!

I like guitar solo albums where you hear 60 minutes of guitar (and 5 minutes singing in between as guest!)
hehe

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:04:31

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Arash)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:28:35

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito

I like Antonio Rey's interview at flamenco world.
He says that the guitar is at the point where it will son become modern to play traditional.
I think that applies to accompaniment role to. The guitarist will lose his ego and become a great accompanist again.
Look at the success of Cepero's album. TRADITIONAL.

If you want solo guitar only, listen to shred or classical.

The guitarist is exactly where he should be. He does all the work, gets little credit but is STOIC and honorable about his situation.

Buen aficionados will always appreciate the cante because it is the root of everything.

Don't get me wrong, I love solo guitar too.
But Rancapino and 2 chords are fine by me.

You too, dont get me wrong :) I also like Cante Albums but i dont like this attitude that the guitarist is the slave of the singer. Sorry.

And no, i will keep listening to my 100s of FLAMENCO Solo guitar Cds.
I dont like classic and shred.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:33:03

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

quote:

The guitarist is exactly where he should be. He does all the work, gets little credit but is STOIC and honorable about his situation.

Well, I agree but not as well...
The older I get, the more I realize that the Cante really leads the way.
I think all the major guitarristas know this as well and it's great to see someone like Camaron shout "olé" to Paco's playing just because it hit a right "nerve".
I really don't think there is such a heirarchy that foreigners believe is so.
I think that it's just about creating the right moment in time.

cheers,

Ron

BTW: Is that his wife sitting next to him?
Seems a pretty happy guy regardless, with the Alegrias and all that!
(Personally I'd be singing a Martinete...

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:39:07

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

Just some simple facts:

1) A flamenco singer can not give a concert without Guitar. But a flamenco guitarists can.

2) Flamenco Guitar ist the universal language which everyone in the worlds understands and enjoys, but the Cante only if you speak spanish and only if you spent some years to get used to it (if you are not spanish).

3) Almost everyone that finds his/her way in to Flamenco and develops interest in Flamenco, do it through the guitar first (like listening to Paco de Lucia, etc.) and not through spanish singers who sing puro flamenco stuff.

So guitarists are not exactly where they should be. They deserve more.
It is not about ego. It is this unfair limitation and this oppressive attitude that some flamenco aficionados have.
But we will see in the futrure who is right and who is wrong.

BTW, i agree that Cante is the root but that doesnt mean that there is no space for innovations and new ideas.
All the great guitarists that record solo guitar albums and give concerts which everybody enjoy proofs it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:48:07

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Arash)

I've never really understood the appeal of this idea of certain musical techniques or styles or approaches becoming outdated or a thing of the past. I mean, we're talking about art, not science. There's a place for two chords, and there's a place for ten chords, and I don't see why an appreciation of one or another has to be mutually exclusive.

I like solo guitar records as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, this sort straight up cante with accompaniment tends to be the most satisfying for me. Though I try not to make a fetish out of it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 7:58:19

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 8:04:37

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 8:06:31

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Arash)

"Cante only if you speak spanish and only if you spent some years to get used to it"

I'm actually quite new to flamenco, and my Spanish is at tourist level, but I enjoy cante a great deal. My understanding and appreciation of it isn't very sophisticated, though as I continue to listen and learn about it I hope that that understanding will become deeper and more nuanced.

And of course innovations and new ideas are great and essential to the continued livelihood of an art form, but do the new ideas have to come at the expense of the old, as a replacement for the other, earlier ideas? Again, there's room enough for both.

Anyway, the last time I checked for Rancapino stuff on youtube there really wasn't much of anything, so I was happy to find this new stuff posted, and wanted to pass word on to those who might not have otherwise caught it. Didn't want to dredge up the ol' new versus old argument.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 8:14:09

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Fetish???

Arash dropped the F word first!

I'm just responding to the suggestion that I might be some kind of flamenco pervert. I'm not, really. I have a totally normal, healthy appreciation of cante. Nothing kinky at all.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 8:18:54

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

Actually my post was not directed at you srshea but to the one who deleted the post:)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 9:11:49

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Arash)

Ah. I see. :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2008 9:47:47

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Tinbender)

quote:

But I am a beginner and hardly ever post because people on here get torn up quite often lately.

Nah, T,
You shouldn't ever worry about that or ever posting anything that's on your mind.
This Forum has a large amount of Ne'r do Wells, Neo-Gypsies and Misfits that will easily absorb any personality IMO.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2008 2:42:38

cneberg

Posts: 257
Joined: Apr. 20 2006
From: Sončno polje pri Večnosti

RE: Rancapino (in reply to srshea)

I'm not crazy about flamenco singing and I rarely fall into the ecstasy while listening to the most respected and worshiped cantaores or cantaors. But i do like some of them....

....but I really can't think of FLAMENCO guitar being seperated from cante. I mean cante is the base of everything in flamenco, emotions, suffer, joy.... I seriously believe that one can not be a true flamenco guitarist without experiencing cante, accompaniment of it. You can do beautiful music, but thats it. In flamenco world it probably doesn't mean a lot.

I really feel that way and I only dipped my toe into flamenco.

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Luka

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2008 4:07:43

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Rancapino (in reply to Guest)

lol forget it... i like some cante too, but solo FLAMENCO guitar has its OWN place, with or without cante. peace.
... lol i just read that Arash also wrote flamenco in big letters. But its actually true, some people just dont recognize the guitar as an own instrument.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2008 23:47:55

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2008 3:39:51