Capo when accompanying cante

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Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

Capo when accompanying cante

Guys, another daft question from noobie noob Tia Rara.

I was at a Pena last night and noticed that when the guitarist was accompanying the singer he had the capo on the 5th fret. The singer was Ulysses, who seems to be a favourite in London - this is the 4 time I've seen him in the last 6 months. He has a lovely voice, probably at the higher end of the range. If he were a classical singer I guess he would be a tenor.

Now I know that it is the singer's choice where the capo goes, but I was just surprised how high it was - I mean if you are losing your top 5 frets it gives you a lot less guitar to play on. Anyway I was wondering what roughly is the range that singers ask for. Anyone enlighten me?

Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2008 21:17:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Capo when accompanying cante (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa

Guys, another daft question from noobie noob Tia Rara.

I was at a Pena last night and noticed that when the guitarist was accompanying the singer he had the capo on the 5th fret. The singer was Ulysses, who seems to be a favourite in London - this is the 4 time I've seen him in the last 6 months. He has a lovely voice, probably at the higher end of the range. If he were a classical singer I guess he would be a tenor.

Now I know that it is the singer's choice where the capo goes, but I was just surprised how high it was - I mean if you are losing your top 5 frets it gives you a lot less guitar to play on. Anyway I was wondering what roughly is the range that singers ask for. Anyone enlighten me?

Thanks

Well it really depends what they are singing. I mean if he sang Solea Arriba at capo 5, that is not high at all. If he was singing Solea por medio, yeah that is high. I personally think many women sing way below their range relative to men in flamenco. What it comes down to is what is comfortable for the voice, both the notes AND The sound the singer is trying to get out. Some guys complain they can't make the right sound if the key is too low. Few complain about not being able to hit higher notes. And in the end the singer gets used to what he thinks his key is rather than experiment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2008 6:06:16

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Capo when accompanying cante (in reply to Ricardo)

Mmmm he was singing a Solea when I noticed the capo, but I haven't a clue whether por medio or arriba.

Perhaps it was the latter as you think that's what you would expect with a capo 5. It's one of the things I wondered - if it were a woman singing, might she want it even higher?

Actually my favourite thing he sang was a fandangos, but not the skippy-trippy jolly type, a more weighty, free type. That was beautiful.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2008 6:32:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Capo when accompanying cante (in reply to Ailsa) 1 votes

Typically, or most often, male singers sing Solea 6-8 Aribba (E phrygian), and females 6-8 por medio. Males with a higher voice or simply want to project more sound, might go for Solea por medio 3-5. In a "co-ed" juerga with guys and girls singing, we might do capo 6 and switch between Arriba or medio depending on who is singing.

A lot "camaronero" males try to copy his sound by singing high...4 por medio typically. PDL had the genius idea to play in the key of C# with no capo, while Tomatito played 4 por medio, and that opened up the whole neck for falsetas. Nowadays, modern players need to know more about how keys relate on the neck. Old style singers get quite nervous when they say "4 por medio" and the guitarist has no capo and does barre chords or tunes the 6th string down!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2008 8:00:33

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Capo when accompanying cante (in reply to Ailsa)

so i guess in a way, flamenco prizes its tenors?

i mean, i hear alot of guys singing who just push higher and higher.... most of them shouldnt be lol. i know in classical music, a tenor is worth more than a bass lol.

what i don't hear alot, is flamencos trying to sing wayyy low. albeit, low voices wont cut thru the crowd sounds, so maybe its more a result of tradition, and atmosphere........

any thoughts?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2008 15:05:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Capo when accompanying cante (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HemeolaMan

so i guess in a way, flamenco prizes its tenors?

i mean, i hear alot of guys singing who just push higher and higher.... most of them shouldnt be lol. i know in classical music, a tenor is worth more than a bass lol.

what i don't hear alot, is flamencos trying to sing wayyy low. albeit, low voices wont cut thru the crowd sounds, so maybe its more a result of tradition, and atmosphere........

any thoughts?

Flamenco is not meant to be a "chorus". You mainly have individual singers, and the capo adjusts to fit the range. Tenors vs Basses are meaningless because you will not have harmony going on. On singer will sing more or less the same range of notes as another, just it will be a few steps different depending on what is comfortable. Also you won't see an emphasis on technique like you do in opera or chorus singing, or even pop. Basses need to learn to project sound, tenors learn to lighten up on high notes so they are not yelling. In flamenco, you have guys that are very loud projecting with diaphram, and others very quite and sing with the throat only. It is what ever the feeling and personal style is, and ultimately that the flamenco sound is achieved.

The sound of the voice is the main thing, more important than most comfortable range. For example in Heavy metal, you have guys with low speaking voice who sing VERY high... like Priest, Maiden, Queensryche, etc. The reason is because of the sound the voice will make in that range. Vs say a male Country singer will keep a range much closer to his speaking voice range. Flamenco is somewhere in the middle there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2008 3:27:04