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Tuning by ear
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Tuning by ear (in reply to Dudnote)
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First, let's plug in some numbers, then let's talk about practical limitations. If you could tune the A string to exactly 110 Hz, and if you could tune the D string to a perfect fourth above the A string by eliminating the beats, the D-string would be 1.95 cents flat from an equally tempered D. Does anyone here claim they can reliably hear a difference of two cents between successive notes on the guitar? More about this in a minute. If you tuned the D-string to an equally tempered D, relative to A, the beat between the 5th fret harmonic on the A-string and the 7th fret harmonic on the D-string would be about .249 Hz, that is to say a full cycle of the beat would take a little more than four seconds. I am conscious of listening to the overtones of the harmonics when tuning by harmonics, but you have to be listening to two octaves above the pitch of the harmonics on the strings to hear a one-second beat. Back to hearing the difference between successive pitches on the guitar. Get out your strobe tuner if you have one, but a simple headstock tuner will do. Play a single note medium loud, and watch the tuner. The pitch goes several cents sharp at the attack, and gradually flattens out as the sound dies away. What does this say about hearing 2 cents difference between successive notes? Do you find yourself re-tuning after playing for just a few minutes? Check the trebles with your tuner. They have gone sharp due to your fingers heating them up a little, while the metal wound basses have remained more stable. Playing under hot stage lights can be a constant battle to play reasonably well in tune all the way through a piece. You can hear the difference between equal temperament and perfect fourths on a piano or organ because the notes are louder, last longer and are more stable in pitch. I would bet against a randomly chosen musician telling the difference on a guitar. But I agree with Ricardo that the player can compensate a familiar guitar with his left hand fingers, playing it audibly in tune, provided it is tuned reasonably well to start with, and the frets aren't too far from where they ought to be. RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2015 5:38:41
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Tuning by ear (in reply to Dudnote)
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Sir Martin, Indeed, you `missed out on something´, which is this: quote:
BTW, I was surprised by the "sweetened temperaments" that came with a Peterson strobe. Even though sweeping they work well enough ... and quote:
I would had not thought that shifted tunings -prorammed by manufacturer / regardless of guitars individual deviation- could be turning out actually sweet compared to just open tuning. Go figure. I was surprised how well it works while only related to open tuning. You are all the time rushing to guard your conservative fraction, apparently unable to read first. About the other comments trying to constitute why tempered tuning shouldn´t make sense on a guitar: It is amazing how people can get stuck in defending their personal routines so far, instead of just trying out new ways and see what gives. This attitude of tower defense I also experienced years ago in a forum for classical guitar when suggesting precision tuning. People would go on foothold about how fretting would render such undertaking useless anyway or how popular musicians would not use such methods either (not knowing how in fact strobe tuners are being standard with contributing to sonorous results in major production recordings, including those in pro studios with classical guitar takes). Same ignorance being displayed regarding tempered tuning. How about overcoming the taliban in oneself and simply try it out instead of knitting theorems about why such method couldn´t benefit. Maybe then you will understand why others can experience new kids on the block in such ways: quote:
Thanks Pawo and Ruphus, you've just changed my life! … "Following these steps you will find inspiring improvement with your instrument... " Ruphus, this was my experience too! And should your hearing not allow still to perceive the pretty obvious effect, it won´t be disgrace. Such limits are out of our will. –In contrast to being just stubborn, which can be omitted. Ruphus
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2015 9:52:49
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Tuning by ear (in reply to Dudnote)
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You don´t read what I say and when I point that out, then me is "talking crap"? Coincidentally, I have seen you talking more crap than anything on the board so far. What are you saying: That your hearing works well, but that you can´t find guitars to be sounding better with tempered tuning? If so, that would be a contradicting claim. The effects of this tuning method can be read up, and a guitar better harmonizing across the neck is what it is, whereas fretting deviation remains parameter between the two basically different tuning methods / won´t take away from a better harmonizing guitar. Now that you are nudging on sweetened tunings, I clearly stated that the effect surprised me myself. Best would be if you ask around in your surrounding to see whether someone owns a Peterson tuner and check out the sweetened settings. Peterson describe it this way: quote:
Peterson's proprietary GTR™ Sweetened Tuning™ is designed to improve the sound of musical intervals on guitar, especially 4ths and 5ths. By taking advantage of a few coincidences such as the preponderance of 4th and 5th intervals appearing in many chord positions, the particular E-A-D-G-B-E arrangement of standard guitar tuning (and also the half-step down or "dropped" tuning variation), and the less-than-perfect overtones of vibrating strings, Peterson has introduced a number of slight variations which can maximize the tuning quality of chords. These guitar-specific Sweeteners™, including G5TH and P5TH in the AutoStrobe™ 490-ST, and GTR in the Virtual Strobe™ series, improve tuning in general but are especially important for "power chords" which feature 4th and 5th intervals. Ruphus
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2015 13:38:44
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