Thumb entry and release

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Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

Thumb entry and release

Hi,

I was reading a classical guitar book which explains that the thumb nail enters the string at it's midpoint and finishes on the left side. Of course, this is the opposite direction that the fingernails approach the string. Anyway, it doesn't make any sense to me... Maybe my thumb nail is too short and hooked to tell what's going on right now, but it doesn't seem as if it would come the other way on a rest stroke. It seems the only time this would happen is if the thumb was held much closer to perpendicular to the string and you sliced your stroke in a leftward motion (looking down at your hand). Can anyone shed some light??

Con

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 1:03:28

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Conrad)

The subject of this post is really disgusting

That out of the way

, I've seen different angles, depending on the desired sound and the hand. I hammer the thumb down onto the string below, going over the struck string with quite a bit of skin/calus and ending with just a bit of the left side of the nail. I don't bend my wrist hardly at all and anchor the first string with my index.

I posted a short falseta which shows this here

This works with my hand. I have huge hands, long and very thick nails and my thumbs are at a 90° angle away from my fingers when relaxed in playing position. Could be this wouldn't work as well for you. You have to try out different angles until you get the one you like.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 8:19:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Conrad)

quote:

I was reading a classical guitar book which explains...

Why?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 18:42:09

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Ricardo) 1 votes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

I was reading a classical guitar book which explains...

Why?

Openmindedness ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 19:50:02

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

I was reading a classical guitar book which explains...

Why?

@buddha: humor.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 19:54:07

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Conrad) 1 votes

Do you have anything against classical Ricardo.

I was told that when you play classic, it's forbidden to change notes to make it sound better. ?????
So, you don't have to think for yourself and your creativity is best kept secret.

Indeed: why ???[

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sartre: to do is to be
sinatra: do-be-do-be-do

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2007 21:01:29

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to koella) 1 votes

One day a man in a blue suit told me that I wasn't allowed to speak. For years I didn't speak because I am 'independant'. Then one day I decided that I should speak ALL of the time instead because I had gained 'perspective'.

Now whenever a man in a blue suit speaks to me I put my fingers in my ears and go nana , because I am 'wise'. And whenever I see a 'fool' listening to ANYONE in a blue suit I walk around near them and fart, because I am 'clever'.

Or am I missing something ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 0:20:15

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 18:19:00

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 0:28:12

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 18:18:33

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 0:35:15

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to val)

Hi Val, I have had a similar problem with hooking and found a solution that really works for me. Since the thumb nail tends to be real strong and thick on most people you can actually get away with removing some material from the inside of the nail, ie file away some of the hook itself on the flesh side. This means you can keep the nail itself a little longer giving you a bit more flexibility in terms of the angles of attack (and therefore the variety of wrist positions, techniques, timbres dynamics mutes etc) which you can use without catching. When you thin the nail slightly at the hook (go easy mind) the nail tends to straighten a little as the stress and strain on the arch sort themselves out. When you get this right believe me it really helps balance your hand much more easily and tends to last about a month.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 0:36:50

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 18:19:15

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 0:51:24

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to val)

Hi Val, im not sure if you get me. I am talking about reducing the thickness of the nail ie put the file between the flesh of the thumb and the nail and file there the hook will go away and you will have the perfect nail shape ( you can do this on the other fingers but the nail is too thin for this to be a good idea as you lose too much strength and the nail becomes brittle ). Certainly you want to file towards the centre of the nail otherwise you will split the grain of the fibres and leave the nail weaker and more likely to chip and tear.

No matter what the dogma (in technique books and 'folklore'-Paco said....Segovia said etc ) if you look at any good classical or flamenco guitarist you will see that they use a wide variety of hand and arm postitions as well as a variety of strokes. Just look at their right hand as they play a range of techniques and watch their hand change position to facilitate different sounds and techniques. The more experience you have as a player the more you will just accept the evidence of your eyes and not need it explained. I remember being advised that Paco played everything rest stroke except arpeggio and then seeing him play a falsetta with lots of free strokes cause he has more common sense than purists.

People shape their nails to suit the sound they like and the techniques they are using most commonly. Oddly enough if you look at Paco's nails (circa 1970) and John Williams nails shape and length are pretty similar.

To be clear ( I hope I am not labouring the point and if you got it straight away Val my aploogies ) if you have a hook on your thumb nail then dont file the playng surface to remove it file the hook itself away(just a little).

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 2:07:52

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

One day a man in a blue suit told me that I wasn't allowed to speak. For years I didn't speak because I am 'independant'. Then one day I decided that I should speak ALL of the time instead because I had gained 'perspective'.

Now whenever a man in a blue suit speaks to me I put my fingers in my ears and go nana , because I am 'wise'. And whenever I see a 'fool' listening to ANYONE in a blue suit I walk around near them and fart, because I am 'clever'.

This is one of the coolest things I've read in ages

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 6:24:58

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 18:19:41

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 10:37:34

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to John O.)

I wear a blue suit and never talk rubbish...

Cheers

David Icke

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 13:41:46

Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to John O.)

Why?? Because I'm delusional...

Nah, I bought this used book called "The Art of Classical Guitar Playing" by Charles Duncan because it's the most exhaustive text I've found on dealing with problem nails, which I have on all fingers. I'm still having a hard time understanding everything that's happening with my nails and finding a good filing solution. I must have mental spacial difficulties, too!

One thing I learned from this book is that the grooves that I get in my nails... that is to say, the wearing down of all of my nails is caused by the strings having to jump too far from my flesh to the nail, instead of them hitting more simultaneously and gliding off. Apparently the problem there is that the nail is rounded too acutely and filed too short on the left side where it enters the string and your compensated stroke dictates that action which damages the nail. For me, that's a real confirmation that my nails have always been too short and it's a vicious cycle. It also explains why I don't get good tone unless I really dig in and get more nail surface.

Anyway, big love to John O., David and Val for your assistance. And Ricardo you just make me laugh. Ole!

Con

p.s. We can talk about that other thumb entry now...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 17:25:44

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Thumb entry and release (in reply to Conrad)

quote:

p.s. We can talk about that other thumb entry now...

I don't talk about that stuff with other guys

Keep in mind your nail hook will be different playing classical than playing flamenco because the position and movements of the hand are different. I get a hook on my thumbnail too, I just push the side of a thin file under the left side of my nail and file until it's smooth.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2007 17:49:17