SOLEA analysis

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SOLEA analysis

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

SOLEA analysis

As per Florian's suggestion and generous offer to help this thread is to be devoted to analysis of Soleares. Specifically, the compas that goes with it, basic examples, etc.

Please help those deprived ones like myself in the God forsaken corners of the world where flamenco is a word as alien as Ded Moroz.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 15:05:46

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

great

except it should have been in audios so that members could upload examples compas tracks etc

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 15:24:30

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Oops, Ill start one there. Disregard this one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 15:27:29

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Here is Gitanos

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:06:22

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

to the question on how do u play that bass note.

u play the 7 first once and let it ring then the open E the do the arpegio part that starts on 3rd (fret 9) string then the note on the 4thstring (fret 9) then hammer on the 5th string(fret 11) which should still be ringing from the first 7 u played.

and that btw is a cierre, the 10 11 12 that ends each compas

for the count of where each not falls i would just be guessing without the audio.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:17:23

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Florian
I tried posting PDl's solea in audio section, it's too big, won't take it. Hw do I cut it to just post the first 20 bars?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 20:07:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Your numbers don't always line up on the exact beat point. Like you write it over top of the second 8th note or 16th note and stuff. Hope you understand it is important to have the first note of each group is the beat????

If so you seem to understand it ok. You had a question, don't remember where because this topic seems to be spread out all over the place, you noticed Paco's tempo moves around alot. Yes this is true. That is why this type of transcription is tough, and Faucher does a commendable job. Bulerias with palmas is easier because the tempo holds steady.

Most likely, I find folks can't follow music in "compas" with moving tempo, because they actually don't have the ability to hold tempo themselves. So that is why the metronome is so important. Without tempo as a base, you can't learn about phrasing, synchopation, dynamics, etc.

Another thing is you talk about Paco leaving space for 11 and 12 beats. Listen out for the golpe on 12, that is important. But you should not be studying Solea guitar solo's for compas clues. You need to study the cante where there is more interaction with tempo and accents. Best is Dance class or dance accompaninment because you will have more need for solid tempos. Check youtube for vids of Baile por Solea, and hopefully try to learn to count that if you MUST get this counting down first. Manuela Carrasco is number one.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 19:54:06

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hey Ricardo, yeah I realize the first is accented it's just that I'm writing it in Paint which is really not user friendly.

Thanks for the pointers, yes there are these spots in Paco's stuff when it's like the count stops and starts all over again. I counted through some Sabicas and it's easier, i'm sure because he's more traditional.

I've played classical for about a decade and I think I can hold the rhythm fairly well, it's just I read about flamenco being really different and complex so it kind of scared me and I want to make sure I get this right.
I'll look into youtube for the cante. Where I am, there is not flamenco anything, no teachers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 21:41:43

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogdan1980
Where I am, there is not flamenco anything, no teachers.

Where are you Bogdan - not being personal! Just city or even country will do!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 21:49:50

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Oh I'm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US of A, what a sad place. There is nothing but bluesmen here. Louis Armstrong lived in New Orleans 60 miles away. True American heritage. And as you may know, few Americans ever venture out of their comfort zone to embrace other cultural experiences.

So Flamenco is not in popularity. Although a while ago for some reason some society here celebrated Lorca's birthday.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 21:54:26

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogdan1980
few Americans ever venture out of their comfort zone to embrace other cultural experiences.

Oh I don't know we've got quite a few Americans on the Foro no? And the influence of Latin America must be huge in some part of the states. Maybe not Baton Rouge though....

Yeah it's tough not having anyone to share your passion with. That's why I spend half my life on this Foro

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:00:18

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

You know one russian writer (Aksenov) said once that generalizations are like one puffy beautiful pillow and the moment you lay on it all the exceptions start pouring out.

I've lived here for almost 7 years and I think that this country is one big island, where people live in their small worlds without venturing too far out. THis is evidenced by the literature they study, worldviews they adopt, languages they don't speak, etc. But as with every rule there are exceptions; there are those few that play classical guitar, or flamenco guitar, go to other countries, participate in this forum etc. You get the point. But clearly the overwhelming percentages act in quite the opposite way.

Just as an example: University I work in has a music school, the Dean "doesn't like guitar" - his words.

. Colorado State University, place I want to work, has a music school, they are doing away with guitar program. Funny!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:09:16

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:12:38

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Romerito

I'm in Louisiana now as stated above. But me and my wife are planning to move to Colorado. Colorado State has (Business Department) Organizational Development department I want to be a part of. We also go to Estes Park twice a year for vacation, so we love the place.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:18:12

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:19:16

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

When you say compas variations? Do you mean.....?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:27:55

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Different strumming patterns for one compas cycle.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:35:45

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 22:40:41

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Guest)

Tomatitio talked about playing along to records just strumming ( on muted strings ). I think this is really useful as you can get the right hand sorted and not worry about the left which means you will have more attention to spare for listening and soaking up the compas and its various nuances from the record.

I also sometimes conduct myself with the free left hand which I find very useful too.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 23:03:17

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Romerito, thanks for the file. What is "n" symbol in there, I haven't seen that before.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 23:08:42

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 23:18:21

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I actually have that book, I just didn't know what finger was indicated by "n". Usually it's i-m-a-e. The first pattern in your pic is triplets that look like p-up, a-down, i-down. I hate this one, or should I say I haven't practiced it enough, it seams unnatural. I usually use PMP, I'm actually good at this one...I think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2007 23:25:15

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: SOLEA analysis (in reply to Bogdan1980)

romeritos list is a very good breakdown, i wrote it down on my practice routine as a reminder. oscar herreros video on solea accompanyment teaches the same idea of mixing parts from a few variations to get many more.. flamenco is a bit like lego, the parts need to fit, but they can be combined to create your own thing. it becomes like a rhythmic vocabulary. this is also my main focus right now, getting more mobility within compas.

i keep my keys in the right pocket of my pants. when i'm out walking i often start playing rhythyms/rasgueados on them because they chime against each other nicely. without thinking i fall into a steady walk, like a metronome beat. i snap lefthand fingers to give golpes some sound. i probably look like a member of some 50ies streetgang called "the street weasels" and i've worn out a few pants, but i'm sure the habit has improved my rasguedos and i think it's been useful for compas as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2007 0:12:32