Golpe Nail Crisis!!!

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

Golpe Nail Crisis!!!

Okay, so the title is a little melodramatic. But I have a real problem with the nail on my golpe finger...

Here are 2 pictures of the nail:

Basically, this nail has always been dodgy... it was ripped off completely when I was at nursery school, due to a nasty incident involving a moving trolley wheel. And ever since, it has grown back rather unhealthily.

There is a large "ridge" running vertically down the centre of the nail. But this is not the major problem...

The problem is that the nail has seperated into 2 layers: a top layer and a bottom layer. And the top layer breaks and peels very easily. In the photos you can just make out a white-ish triangular patch on the nail towards the tip. this is where there is an "air bubble" below the surface of the nail. If I flex the nail, or tug on the top layer, the white-ish patch moves, as the air circulates beneath.

This appears to get worse when I do things like washing up, as the water gets between the two layers.

Recently, I've been experimenting with various forms of nail strengtheners and polishes. First I tried "Pro-Strong" fluoride and calcium hardener, but it appeared to make the problem worse.

Today I got some Sally Hansen "Diamond Strength" hardener, but it seems to be having a similar effect. It bonds to the top layer, but there is still seperation between the layers.

I must stress that this is an ongoing problem, and hasn't just arisen. But its only this ONE NAIL that I have problems with, not any of the others. And it just happens to be my golpe finger!

Can anyone recommend something to rectify this? I was thinking maybe some sort nail repair treatment. I'd rather not resort to using Superglue if I can help it. And I can't really afford to get my nails done professionally.

So... any help would be greatly appreciated!

James

PS: Sally Hansen "Diamond Strength"... has anyone else tried this? The box says it uses REAL DIAMOND PARTICLES, and even NITROCELLULOSE (isn't that used for lacquering guitars?!

)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 19:17:07

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Just stop washing up

Have you ever thought of another golpe finger? How about your pinkie? Though the sound might be different, it could work. I think there is a german flamenco guitar method by Hansjoachim Kaps where this is suggested.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 19:30:47

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Errrrrgh!
Bash!
That looks like horrible Medical pictures....

A word of hope though...

A lot of Flamenco players play golpe with the callous flesh on the fingertip.
I personally think it sounds much better...more a "thud" than a percussive "click".

I hate my golpes.

Too much nail..

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 20:26:58

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I would at least go and have one appointment with a nail technician to see if they can give some advice on how best to look after it. and use washing up gloves!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 20:35:02

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Ricardo said this too. You can use your a-finger for golpe. But you can also use the m-finger. No problem. Just got to get used to it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 20:40:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to Romanza)

Romanza (and others)..
I do the washing up every night..no gloves.
Washing up doesn't do anything to your nails IMO.
I play pretty hard and don't break nails when playing.
(You gotta keep them fairly short though)

The worst thing ever for me was when I started using glue etc etc , thinking that's what all the pros use so I better follow suit.

Weakened my nails no end.

They grew in really thin and floppy, so I really needed the gunk to strengthen them up until I quit and let them grow in again properly.. (6 months to a year)

That's been my experience anyway...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 20:47:36

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Washing up doesn't hurt. But the nails are soft afterwards. So I wait some 10 minutes afterwards to let them get solid again.

Same goes for showering.

Which brings me to the next question. Are there any players who shower with gloves ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 20:52:22

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Thanks, guys. I suppose I can try golpes with another finger. But I've just got to the point where its become "natural" with the "a" finger.

I used to have my nails short (out of preference) but I didn't have enough power in the finger to get a loud golpe sound. And currently, the fleshy tip of my golpe finger is fairly soft.

I could stop washing up, but that would be impractical. Wearing gloves might be a better idea. I just find that the water goes between the top and bottom layer of my nail, and causes it to blister, especially once I've applied varnish/strengthener.

Might book an appointment with a nail specialist, but the girls at my local salon seem a bit vacant, and its full of old ladies having their regular sessions. But maybe my doctor can recommend a suitable specialist who really knows what they're doing.

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 5 2006 21:48:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Yeah you can reinforce with other fingers. I golpe with ma and pinky too. Skin and nail together is important for the sound. But I am concerned about the strength of the nail for arpeggios and stuff.

I think your nail is very short and round. You could let it grow out and file flat so you have the edges all reinforcing when you do golpe. When my nail touches the tap plate, I can feel the whole edge touching, the skin of the fingertip too, not just a point of the curved nail. I don't feel any stress on the nail itself, like it will bend or break if I push really hard. So even with a bubble like yours, I would not worry about golpe with that nail shape.

But I know if I had your problem, rasgueo would wear down the nail in one gig. Have you ever peeled the top layer off and let it grow out again? I am sure you have, but it just happend again right, after awhile of the nail being "normal". If it were me, I would peel off the white parts that I could, put lots of glue on the second layer to protect it, and do as little playing as I could get away with. After the glues wears or flakes off (a week), put more and keep doing it until most of the old nail had shed off and new nail material grew in. The glue should be strong enough to protect the nail you have, and if the bubble forms again, I would just have do the same, peel it off and put glue. You can try also to put glue between the layers and press them together.

So all you need is some time and patience to experiment. It could be you have a fungus or something that is splitting the nail because of that center line. I really think the glue will help you, but if you have an aversion to using super glue for whatever reason, I don't know what else to say. Good luck man.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 6:47:57

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Thanks Ricardo.

I may have to try the superglue if nothing else works.

The problem with peeling away the top layer is that it would only be possible for the upper half of the nail. The layers seem fused together toward the cuticle, but naturally split towards the tip. The nail would also be very thin and flexible with only one layer, so I'd have to apply lots of glue or varnish. But maybe its worth trying.

The problem with glueing the two layers together would be actually getting the glue in between them. But I'll see if I can think of something.

A fungus? Ew! I hope not! But I think a visit to my doctor might proove beneficial if only to clarify and recommend a good nail specialist.

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 10:16:20

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

http://www.bkconcepts.com/Products/HandsNails/ECG.htm

i dunno how many times i've recommended this stuff

,but this is gods(or horses) gift to flamenco players

my nails are tough,dont peel, dont crack. try it i costs about $15 bucks but its work every penny

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 12:15:53

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to henrym3483)

quote:

i dunno how many times I've recommended this stuff, but this is gods(or horses) gift to flamenco players

my nails are tough, dont peel, dont crack. try it it costs about $15 bucks but its work every penny

Thanks Henry! But... "Ecrinal Cuticle Gel"? are you sure this is the correct product? According to the description at the link you posted, the gel is used for "softening the cuticle" rather than hardening the nail, no?

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 15:09:23

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Ah, I think you mean this stuff:

http://www.beautycenter.co.uk/fiche_produit.php?id_rayon=&id_article=2379

http://www.thechiropodist.com/proddetail.php?prod=ecrinalnailhardener

Correct me if thats wrong.

Its gotta be worth a shot... nothing to loose!

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 15:20:55

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

'Bashy,

With a only bit of medical background, what I HAVE learned is that is cases like this, we're all very different. Someone may come on here and swear by a product, others will try, with little or no success.

I suffered from HORRENDOUSLY weak nails, all my life, and flamenco was probably a poor choice - but an unavoidable one!

I tried EVERYTHING. Sally Hansen stuff? Got about 8-12 bottles of different crap laying around. Want it??!

Then I had a nail-lady offer that system where they grind the nail down? Was unreal! I could play! Lasted one week in the water (surfing, dishes, shower). What I was left with was a nail that was as rigid as wax paper.

My neighbor showed me silk wrap, but rather than the WHOLE nail, which I didn't like due to the superglue, was these little crescent moons, glued along the tips. I still use for an emergency-break, or can be used to protect one troupled finger, too.

In addition, I talked to a nutritionist, who suggested BIOTIN. You can take large amounts, and you will rather quickly see improvement. 2 weeks, BIG change! I also used Nail Tek II, a growth/strength enhancer (maybe...but I think it DOES work), but it also simply protects the nails - which is quite important. And for awhile, I was brushing the tip and underneath!

It's been a year. I never even think about my nails past filing and an occasional polish (I hit it with a buffer so it's not so shiny, and keeps the 'odd looks' down!).

For those who DON'T use a polish/protector of some kind? Notice all that dust that builds up under the strings where where play? That's the tops of the nails, filing away on the base strings. Take an old base string by the ends, and go file away on a piece of wood.....What does that tell you when you see a nice groove and a pile of sawdust?

Cheers all!

PS! For all those who suffer from weak nails and live near a store called Big Lots (ex' Pic n' Save), they sell a Hair, Skin and Nail vitamin for $1.99. It's mostly biotin, and that's the stuff, as bottles of biotin were like $8-10 at the health places...Maybe those .99 cent stores?

My Tip of the Week!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 15:48:19

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Well, now I'm confused!

There seem to be so many treatments available. I guess the the only way I'll know for sure is to try them out systematically.

Biotin sounds sensible... I already take vitamin supplements, but they only contain 0.15mg of Biotin. Additional Biotin might be wise... although I was hoping for a direct-application cure.

I'm not sure how "grinding down the nail" would make it stronger, but if you say this works, maybe it does... try and let me know the technical term for the treatment if you can remember it.

Henry: there seems to be an Ecrinal "cream" hardener and and Ecrinal "liquid" hardener... which one do you use?

Thanks for everyones help!

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 16:26:36

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

NO!!!! The 'grinding' thing was this process they call.....damn...not silk wrap...! CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME!!! They add a THICK layer of powder and mix to make the nail quite thick, but it comes right off in water and you're left with paper-thin nails! A nightmare! Maybe it's acrylics?? Ask a girl! They'll know!

In reality, the change - or most of it - needs to happen from within. The other things help, some more than others, but get more biotin in you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 16:46:12

veet

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I would cut it back to the quick, have a nail shop glue on a plastic tip and put acrylic over it. Then it will have a chance to grow back unsplit. Downside - you'll be stuck with the acrylic for a while. Whatever you do, don't try to do the acrylics yourself. It's a false economy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 17:18:51

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to Ramón)

quote:

They add a THICK layer of powder and mix to make the nail quite thick, but it comes right off in water and you're left with paper-thin nails!

OK, fair enough... it wouldn't be suitable for me... I shower every day and do domestic work involving water.

I'll try the Biotin... I can always use that in conjuction with a direct application nail product. So hopefully the nail will be twice as strong.

Thanks Veet... when I'm lazy and don't practice, the nail occasionally grows unsplit, but as soon I start the golpes again it splits. I will ask the local nail specialist what treatments are available/suitable. by the way, isn't "Veet" a hair removal treatment for women? My mother uses it to do her legs!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 17:45:36

veet

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Only my girlfriend knows for sure...

V

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2006 22:17:26

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

Ah, I think you mean this stuff:

http://www.beautycenter.co.uk/fiche_produit.php?id_rayon=&id_article=2379

http://www.thechiropodist.com/proddetail.php?prod=ecrinalnailhardener

Correct me if thats wrong.

Its gotta be worth a shot... nothing to loose!

Jb

yup thats the stuff i just did a google for the image.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2006 17:23:31

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Thanks, man! I'm gonna reshape the nail (as Ricardo suggested), start taking Biotin (as Ramon suggested) and try applying some Ecrinal (as you suggested).

hopefully between the the three, I'll see some improvement! Otherwise I'll go see a specialist.

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2006 18:20:30

Garyw1960

Posts: 91
Joined: Nov. 13 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

This is not a mickey take.

Cheap ping pong ball, cut it up into a fingernail tip shape and fit it under the nail end with nail glue.

I will send a sample.

Gary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2006 19:35:15

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to Ramón)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramón

It's been a year. I never even think about my nails past filing and an occasional polish (I hit it with a buffer so it's not so shiny, and keeps the 'odd looks' down!).

Hm... could you tell me what you use as a buffer? I am still looking for something I could put on my nails which doesn't attract the others attention.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2006 19:37:58

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to Garyw1960)

quote:

Cheap ping pong ball, cut it up into a fingernail tip shape and fit it under the nail end with nail glue.

I will send a sample.

Thanks Gary! Anything is worth trying at this stage! And perhaps the simpler the solution, the better.

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2006 19:40:32

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Golpe Nail Crisis!!! (in reply to JBASHORUN)

GuxDiBux:

I just use the finest paper on one of those 4-sided, foamboard nail files. One is usually like 400/600 grit, maybe finer, and it just gives a sort of dulled-down, natural look to the nail.

Girls call me and ask me what I'm doing, and I just put on my deepest and most masculine voice and say;

"Just doing my nails.....You?"

Slays 'em every time! A man in touch with his feelings!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2006 23:24:52