What to buy : Beginner

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DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

What to buy : Beginner

Hello,

I'm new in the world of flamenco and a neophyte at playing guitar. I own an accoustic guitar but flamenco is truly my new passion. As I'm still very unexperienced, I don't want to spend 3000$ on a guitar. I'd rather pay for a cheap one to practice, then buy a beauty in 4-5 years. Since there are no luthiers making flamenco guitars, nor any guitar shop selling anything related to flamenco around my place

, I started looking at this : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation?q=FLamenco

There are a few guitars under 600$ that look interesting, but I don't know what to look for in a guitar. Any inputs? Comments? I'd really like some help there.

Best regards.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2006 22:11:42

Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

In that price range the Yamaha CG171 SF seems to have a fairly decent reputation. So does the Lucida 797, but you would have to buy used. Used Lucidas' seem to crop up on e-bay quite often.

I had a Lucida once and it was a very good guitar for the price.

Just bear in mind with flamencos and classicals you mostly get what you pay for.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 11:20:04

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

I have the Yamaha, and i play it quite a bit, its a good guitar for the money.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 11:28:07

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

I have the Yamaha, and i play it quite a bit, its a good guitar for the money.

I have the Yamaha too. And Todd is right that it is a good guitar for the money. You should be able to buy one for under $600 if you look hard enough... my one cost me £225. But bear in mind that you will not usually get a great Flamenco tone for this price. At this level, many "Flamenco guitars" are just classical guitars with Golpeadores stuck on them, meaning that a cheap classical might be an alternative if you just want to practice your technique on it. The Yamaha is actually made from cypress wood, and this is a plus and quite unusual for such a cheap guitar. I would go for the Yamaha, but try before you buy if possible because there can be quite a variation in tone from one guitar to the next. But if you're serious about Flamenco, you'll probably want to upgrade to a better guitar than the Yamaha after a while.

Hope that helps,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 11:53:37

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Good points. The Yamaha has the right neck profile/angle and
action, with the strings close to the top.

This way, down the road, when you get a nice Conde or something,
the set up wont feel so foriegn.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 12:57:46

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Hi James - can i ask did you buy your Yamaha online? I've been looking for the same one and have had a search saved on ebay for months but havent had any luck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 13:42:04

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Hi Jacqueline,
The Yamaha CG171SF is quite a hard to find guitar in the UK, and they don't usually come up on Ebay. Your best bet is to order one from a guitar shop. I couldn't find one single shop in London that had a CG171SF in stock, so if you're convinced you want the Yamaha, you'll have to put down a deposit and order one. Order times are usually several months, depending on what Yamaha have in stock.

I bought my Yamaha for £225 from a shop called "Unplugged" in Hanwell (near Ealing, West London):

http://www.petercooks.co.uk/acoustics.php

The shop is located at 118 Uxbridge Road, W7 (a 20 minute walk from Ealing Broadway station).

What the guys at the Unplugged shop do is to take the list price, then knock off a percentage. I did quite a comprehensive search for a good price on the Yamaha, and of all the London shops I tried, Unplugged was the cheapest.

The service isn't great, its pretty "no frills" stuff. The guy there has been promising to phone me back for weeks regarding the delivery time for a guitar we ordered from him for my brother, and still no response yet.

But the best thing to do is to phone "Kemble Music" (the UK distributor for Yamaha guitars) directly to find out when the guitar will be available. Here is their number: 01908 366 700. They are usually very helpful in this respect.

The ordering system works on a waiting list basis. The first person/shop to order a guitar will be the first person in the queue to receive one when the shipment arrives in the country. So the sooner you put down your deposit, the sooner you get one.

Also, bear in mind that the guitar doesn't come with a case, so unless you wanna carry it home in a box, its advisable to bring one with you.

As I said, mine cost £225 (excluding case), but that was about a year or so ago. It may have gone up slightly, but I doubt it has gone up by much. And don't be afraid to try and push for a better price, if you think you can get it!

Hope this helps,

James

Btw: I guess this means you haven't swopped guitar for dancing?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 14:13:25

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Oh yeah... I did manage to negotiate a "setup" into the purchase price. But it was a bit of a joke. The guy said they'd check it over when it arrived at the shop, but in the end they couldn't match the string action (heights) I specified. So you might have to tweek it yourself when you get it. I found the Yamaha was well set up, but I wanted the action a tiny bit lower than it was.

Good luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 14:19:58

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

quote:

I have the Yamaha, and i play it quite a bit, its a good guitar for the money.

I have the Yamaha too. And Todd is right that it is a good guitar for the money. You should be able to buy one for under $600 if you look hard enough... my one cost me £225. But bear in mind that you will not usually get a great Flamenco tone for this price. At this level, many "Flamenco guitars" are just classical guitars with Golpeadores stuck on them, meaning that a cheap classical might be an alternative if you just want to practice your technique on it. The Yamaha is actually made from cypress wood, and this is a plus and quite unusual for such a cheap guitar. I would go for the Yamaha, but try before you buy if possible because there can be quite a variation in tone from one guitar to the next. But if you're serious about Flamenco, you'll probably want to upgrade to a better guitar than the Yamaha after a while.

Hope that helps,

Jb

I am very serious about flamenco, but since I'm just diving into it, I just want a guitar with the correct angle and neck profile to practice my technique correctly, because it doesn't feel right on an accoustic guitar. Right now I'm a student with not much money to spend, so 400-600$ is the range I'm willing to pay for a practicing tool. But as I said, in 4-5 years, I'll definatly buy a truly handmade is Spain, as I even plan to go there and find a teacher. So hopefully I'll have improved a lot by then and made enough money to afford an expensive guitar.

The Yamaha defintaly seems to be an excellent bargain.
I'm also considering this one : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cordoba-32EF-Flamenco-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=512771

Thanks for your help, it's very appreciated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 14:28:58

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Thank you James, that's very helpful indeed.

I had a little go at the dancing and liked it alot but i really need to focus on the guitar.

I'm secretly hoping that when I have a nice shiny new guitar with a proper flamenco sound my playing will somehow magically start to improve!! Although I know that really I just need to practice a lot more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 15:09:28

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Romanza)

quote:

I'm secretly hoping that when I have a nice shiny new guitar with a proper flamenco sound my playing will somehow magically start to improve!! Although I know that really I just need to practice a lot more.

Well, I just hope you won't be dissappointed with the Yamaha... after all it doesn't compare to a Conde. But you get what you pay for, I suppose, and its a good "First Flamenco Guitar". I have to admit its encouraged me to take Flamenco more seriously, and practise more often. Which means it has served its purpose, until I can afford one of Anders' Blancas.

Good luck!

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 15:42:45

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

So, let's just say this : if you had the choice between these 2 guitars, which one would you chose and why?

Cordoba 32EF : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cordoba-32EF-Flamenco-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=512771

Yamaha CG171SF : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-CG171SF-Flamenco-Guitar?sku=511105

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 17:33:20

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

So, let's just say this : if you had the choice between these 2 guitars, which one would you chose and why?

I have played both of them and the Yamaha is definitely the way to go. Better action. Better construction. Better tone.

By the way, Musician's Friend is a good reputable dealer.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 19:41:30

Garyw1960

Posts: 91
Joined: Nov. 13 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Romanza)

Keep us posted if you manage to get the Yamaha ordered Romanza, I searched all the advertised shops and came up with zilch.

My guitar tutor is in with a distributor and may well find something which is in the CG171 guitar range when he next sees him...........in the meantime careful with the nails.

Best regards

Gary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 19:50:59

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Patrick

quote:

So, let's just say this : if you had the choice between these 2 guitars, which one would you chose and why?

I have played both of them and the Yamaha is definitely the way to go. Better action. Better construction. Better tone.

By the way, Musician's Friend is a good reputable dealer.

Thanks for the info. Plus it's cheaper... it's going to be a great practicing tool for the next few years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 0:55:00

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

I bought the Yamaha last Nov. Mine is really nice. No regrets ever.
Oh yeah, I got it online sight unseen VIA Musicians Friend website.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 2:09:36

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

By the way, Musician's Friend is a good reputable dealer.

Yes I had a look on their website but couldn't see whether they delivered to the UK - this was a bit vague.. "Orders shipping to U.S. Military APO/FPO addresses, PO Boxes, and all areas outside the USA (Guam, Virgin Islands, etc.) can only ship USPS Priority Mail (3-6 business days)"

Anyway will drop them an email.
Cheers
Romanza

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 8:55:58

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Garyw1960)

Thanks Gary.
Actually there's another one which looks pretty good - Cashmira 87, which is around the £300 mark. Anyone any experience of this one?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 8:57:57

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Romanza)

quote:

quote:

By the way, Musician's Friend is a good reputable dealer.
Yes I had a look on their website but couldn't see whether they delivered to the UK - this was a bit vague..

I already checked Musicians Friend- they do not ship outside the US, other than to the US Offshore Islands. Which is a shame, because their prices are great... £190 for the Yamaha is a superb deal!

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 9:51:41

Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorX2k2

So, let's just say this : if you had the choice between these 2 guitars, which one would you chose and why?

Cordoba 32EF : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cordoba-32EF-Flamenco-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=512771

Yamaha CG171SF : http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-CG171SF-Flamenco-Guitar?sku=511105

I would go with the Yamaha and upgrade with a decent set of strings and a bone saddle, if you're into that sort of thing. There are several threads on various boards about this, all tout marked improvement in the sound of the Yamaha.

How To Make a Saddle

Bone Saddle Blanks

Good Source For Strings

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 9:54:23

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Go for the Yamaha CG171Sf. I bought one a couple of years ago as a 'pub guitar' for sessions, and it's fine.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 12:44:20

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Doc X2k2,
good luck on your journey. I recommend the Yamaha too. I actually had to bend J's arm a little, but eventually everyone convinced him to buy this ideal tool for the beginner. A word about going to Spain to get a guitar... this is a good way to waste a lot of money! I know two pro guitarists from here in AZ that did that and ended up being charmed by the ambiance and elegance of the local luthiers and purchased instruments they haven't touched three times since returning. If people who have been playing 20 years can fall into that trap...

There is a phenomenon of things just sounding and tasting better in Spain. Also, another, seedier aspect of luthiers taking advantage of the traveler and giving them duds. I wouldn't trust myself to buy a guitar under those conditions.

I haven't personally played Anders' guitars, but with the rave reviews and reasonable (so far) prices, you might want to think about getting on his list or at least discussing it with him.

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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 17:24:08

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

I actually had to bend J's arm a little, but eventually everyone convinced him to buy this ideal tool for the beginner.

And I have no regrets in the end. Although I do sometimes wish the label inside my guitar read "A. Eliasson- Hecho de mano en Espana" rather than "Yamaha Corporation- Made in Taiwan".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 17:55:22

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: What to buy : Beginner (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Doc X2k2,
good luck on your journey. I recommend the Yamaha too. I actually had to bend J's arm a little, but eventually everyone convinced him to buy this ideal tool for the beginner. A word about going to Spain to get a guitar... this is a good way to waste a lot of money! I know two pro guitarists from here in AZ that did that and ended up being charmed by the ambiance and elegance of the local luthiers and purchased instruments they haven't touched three times since returning. If people who have been playing 20 years can fall into that trap...

There is a phenomenon of things just sounding and tasting better in Spain. Also, another, seedier aspect of luthiers taking advantage of the traveler and giving them duds. I wouldn't trust myself to buy a guitar under those conditions.

I haven't personally played Anders' guitars, but with the rave reviews and reasonable (so far) prices, you might want to think about getting on his list or at least discussing it with him.

Heheh, thanks for the info. As for going to Spain... well, I plan to move from Canada to Italy in 2 years, going to medical college over there. I've travelled all around Western Europe already and I loved it. I liked Spain a lot so I wouldn't surprised to take quite a few trips from Italy to Spain and look around. Anyways, there are no luthiers or guitar shop where I live that sells flamenco guitars so I'm either stuck with online shopping or taking a trip to Spain from Italy in 5 years and try as many guitars as I can.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 18:54:12