modern soleares

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modern soleares

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dyst0pian

Posts: 43
Joined: Jun. 7 2005
From: Quebec, Canada

modern soleares

Is it just me or do modern soleares seem to speed up and down a bit? i was listening to ricardo and doitsujin's videos and they seem to have a feel to it that you cant get playing with a metronome. I'm really a beginner in flamenco guitar, and guitar in general, so my ear is not quite as developped as most people on the forum, but it seems like beat 1 and 4 last a bit longer(?), giving it that deeper sounding groove. Am i wrong? do the accent still fall in the same time as if you were playing at a constant speed, just accelerating in between? ive been practicing for a while trying to get everynote its time value on paper, but is that a wrong way to go about it? i feel if everything is played exactly to the value of the notes, it will sound more like classical and miss that individual "air" that every compas has. anyways these are just some thoughts going trough my head at the moment, if anyone understands give me some insight

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2006 18:47:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: modern soleares (in reply to dyst0pian)

No, it's not just modern stuff.
There are palos like Soleares and Seguiriyas etc which give the freedom of interpreting the phrase, irrespective of metronomic time.
You'll hear it a lot in solo guitar stuff.
BUT that doesn't mean that it's free to do anything you want.
The listener will automatically adjust to the phrasing, but that phrasing has to be right.
Listen to a Cantaor singing these styles.
The emphasis is more on expression than metronomic timing.
But the singer and the guitarist must be in contact with each other...which still means both understanding the compás thoroughly.
So there is still no escape..

When a Dancer comes in, then the focus changes from a melodic interpretation to a rhythmic interpretation...so then you've got to be on the ball.
Does that help?

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2006 19:52:39

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: modern soleares (in reply to dyst0pian)

Good question and observation. It is not just "modern" rather the SOLO guitarist's interpretation that matters. And not just solea. When I play these same exact falsetas for a dancer, or to palmas, it is much more metronomic and steady, sometimes SUPER slow as well. When playing solo, the guitarist has room to interpret and stretch the time. Notice the ending part I speed up to solea por bulerias and keep the tempo much more clearly marked.

What are the limitations is a matter of taste. You can't really do whatever. If you CAN'T play the falseta, whatever it is, to a metronome, than you are faking it IMO (for rhythmic forms of course not libre forms). I am not a big fan of Segovia and classical guitar, but he had a great quote or advice I heard on a video for a student once. He told a student who was playing very steady that she could be more free, but had to be careful. He said something like "it is in the delicate lack of respect for the rhythm, that one can define the good or the bad artist". What I take it to mean is, when you stretch the time you have to be careful and do it tastefully, depending on what it is. If you are learning the compas, use a metronome. You can't deliberately stretch time, if you don't have time to begin with. Once you have it down in the groove, your ear, experience, feelings, etc, will tell you where to go with it.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2006 7:48:54

dyst0pian

Posts: 43
Joined: Jun. 7 2005
From: Quebec, Canada

RE: modern soleares (in reply to dyst0pian)

Thanks for replying, i understand what both of you mean, when you've heard compas so much that you can alter it a bit to create a dramatic pause/speedup but somehow still make it feel right. I'm not there yet, so i guess i'll get back to practicing with a metronome for a while. Thanks for the clarifications.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2006 23:03:04