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A rasgueo pattern bothering me   You are logged in as Guest
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johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

A rasgueo pattern bothering me 
I hope you don't mind indulging with me with this little Rasgueo pattern.

Basically its a triplet to the 2nd beat that ends up as a i down golpe stroke on 3 that comes up a lot in Bulerias and Alegrias. .

The tab on the left is from a Paco Serrano Bulerias and the one on the right is from a Tomatito Alegrias.



Would you say they are pretty interchangeable, or more common in different palos ?
Do you practice them both ?
I kind of use them both but never gave them too much thought, now I am trying to practice them real slow I have the need to examine them more closely.

Whats interesting about the Tomatito one (right) is that he does the triplet again with the upstroke on 10, then he continues with an upstroke on 11 before doing a downstroke on 12.... I find that confusing as I still like to think of upstrokes as on the off beat.

Anyway I hope that makes some sense and some of you will share your experience of these two patterns

Cheers

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2013 22:02:13
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: A rasgueo pattern bothering me (in reply to johnnefastis) 
the first one is one that everyone uses very often, it's a basic rasgueado that you must know and use...
the second one however is rhytmically of course very common, but there are many ways to play it...the one showing is one i've never used before, i find having to go with the middle finger after an index up awkward and i find myself replacing this with either going with the index finger down twice (common but if you go really fast, it's difficult), with the ring finger instead of middle (which can make the sound uneven because the ring finger can't hit the string that hard so i try to avoid it), or after the amii i go with index down, pulgar down with golpe, pulgar up (this last one is more common when accompanying dance where you try to save energy whilst trying to remain powerful)...
i've also found myself using the pinky, eami i i i i - also when i get lazy or tired...
it's definitely worth examining all kinds of possibilities and practicing them, in the end you will find the ones you feel the most comfortable with...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 1:49:21
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A rasgueo pattern bothering me (in reply to johnnefastis) 
quote:

I find that confusing as I still like to think of upstrokes as on the off beat.


Well, that's the whole cool thing about contra beats. The down stroke on the contra after 10 was the important thing, it's always accented. You can do a longer one in alegria or solxbul between count 3-6 also:

amii,amii, i-i (both down) i (down off beat with pull of on beat) m (off beat again) i golpe on 6 etc. So all those down stroke are off beats and left hand can fill em with the pull offs.

Also on the 10-12 part in say alegrias, when you do this ami-i up i DOWN (off beat after 10) i up, i or m down then i down with golpe on 12, you can mute the chord with left hand pinky BETWEEN each stroke after that down stroke after 10....it's very funky sounding.

Finally, that 10-12 phrase is used a lot in fandangos as well.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 7:42:56
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: A rasgueo pattern bothering me (in reply to johnnefastis) 
Thanks for the replies guys.
It was the 10 to 12 bit that was bothering me most as I found
I could play it in alegrias in the i up on the contra style and it sounded convincing
to the point where I thought the encuentro book could be wrong.

I think we are all so spoilt for choice when it comes to examples to follow,
conversations like this help me find the important variations.

Right I am gonna go practice i up on the downbeats of 10 and 11.

Will try and post a video.

Thanks again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2013 9:36:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A rasgueo pattern bothering me (in reply to johnnefastis) 
quote:

Right I am gonna go practice i up on the downbeats of 10 and 11.


If you are adept at handling contra beats in general as down strokes, you can LEAVE OFF the 11 so you have this:
ami-i-I...MI-with golpe or...triplet-10-&....&12. So you get a better sense of the phrasing. Later you notice the 11 as an up stroke is incidental as per the motion of the index finger swinging up and down.

Also might help to just forget the M finger altogether and do it all with just I strokes. There you notice a differentiation between a quick flick of the basses in order to retract quickly, vs a full extension of the I stroke when you do that i-i both down. I call these details "dynamics" and it's tough to get just from a score or recording. video really helps.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 3:18:00
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: A rasgueo pattern bothering me (in reply to johnnefastis) 
Thanks Ricardo,

I will have a look at those, I have got the Tomatito one down now, slowly but I think its correct now. I will upload a video.

Has there been a "9 10 11 12" thread before ? I often find this is where a lot of these complicated little things happen, but I guess it can happen anywhere. I think it would be really useful to share some videos of these details a maybe 80 - 100 bpm, because they often happen so fast its hard to pin them down. If you have any slow ones that would great.

Thanks again
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 22 2013 18:25:41
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