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cante jondo
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Ricardo
Posts: 14935
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: cante jondo (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
Anybody has an opinion why gitanos sing cante jondo better than payos (honourable excepions such as José Menese apart)?
I believe the answer is the gitano community kept the music closely guarded for generations via the traceable flamenco dynasties, and the payos they worked beside were involved to a certain extent, however, the way the gitano cultivates tradition (and still does, even non-flamenco musical things), and the fact it is encourage at such early ages (I perform Romanian gypsy weddings and always there are some children very advanced at guitar and singing naturally that join us with Gypsy Kings repertoire and other famous tunes), results in the majority of decent artists from this group. Conversely when payos do appear involved they tend to be exceptional precisely because it is NOT their cultural situation and they work much harder to do a convincing job, gain acceptance, etc., and the gitanos actually appreciate this level of commitment (hence I get highered for these weddings as much as certain gitanos in the community that could also do the job).
Now, the other important thing that is not given much focus but is uniquely important to this flamenco thing vs other gypsy traditions, is that inside the flamenco community there has always been A LOT of racial mixing. This is rather unusual for gypsies and seems to go hand in hand with the flamenco music to some extent. Because it is a bit taboo, you notice researchers lumping together people that might identify as payo or Gitano, keeping them separated, when the truth might be more complicated genetically. For example, my cantaor friend from Barcelona, identifies as a payo artist…however, a deeper probe into his family reveals gitano blood going back to Sevilla….and this explains too much that normally would be overlooked, does it not? My mentor Gerardo Nuñez is the only kid born in Jerez, his family being from Granada, and his sisters wanted to take dance class got him started in flamenco in that town. Being “born” into it, unlike his family members, he ends up marrying a Gypsy dancer and speaking Calo, extremely integrated into the community and history, and and it becomes difficult to separate his toque as a “payo” toque. This thing will extend to singers and dancers IMO. I believe the racial mixing thing to be part of the story from the beginning of flamenco history (my personal research has turned up names dates and places in this regard), and continues to do so. Possibly the hidden strength and beauty behind the art form that is too often overlooked.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 28 2024 18:34:15
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Ricardo
Posts: 14935
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: cante jondo (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
Is there any credence to the idea that gitanos have simply suffered more? Or at least understand it more due to suffering. Ya know, classic argument.... white people can't sing the blues.
Yes of course this is a valid argument. The only thing is, on case by case, the people more down trodden aren’t necessarily the better artists. For example, children tend to be oblivious of the hardships of life and are the first to develop flamenco skills. It is later as adults, after having experienced and contextualized the bad stuff, that they can then apply those skills in a natural way to express the deeper aspects of life. And of course it is the deeper aspects that make the music universal to the hard lives people around the globe share.
And then there is this quote of PDL, who watched his mother crying that there was not enough food for every mouth in the house. He said after the belly becomes full (after he found financial success with the guitar), what was left to “fight for”? And as an adult he noticed the “spirit” or soul or whatever, is unfulfilled and he worked on new music with this inspiration.
So long story short, yes being marginalized matters a great deal, however, the cultural aspect of closed and guarded traditions I feel is what is driving the larger numbers in regards to flamenco individual artists.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date May 5 2024 15:57:54
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