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SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST...
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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 SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST...
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Sorry folks, I know it must seem like I'm constantly contemplating unanswerable questions. But I was wondering if MUSIC adheres to Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Thats not to suggest that music evolved from apes, but rather, as I understand it, that the rule "Only the strong survive" applies. And that, in theory, it is the specimens that can adapt to the demands of their environment that are most likely to succeed.
If it does apply, it would be interesting to hear what effect this could have on the various genres of music. Is there any consensus as to what the "strengths" an artform needs to survive are? And also, exactly how can an artform adapt to suit an environment, and what impact might this adaption have on the artform as a whole?
Obviously, this is ForoFlamenco, so Flamenco should be considered when making any points. But I see no reason why points shouldn't apply to other genres, or music in general.
As usual, any informed opinions are welcome.
Thanks,
James
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Date Mar. 10 2006 12:46:30
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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J,
great question. I think the answer is that practically anything that has survived, survived for a reason. Which is not to say that men NEED their nipples, but they are there for a reason--we come from the same "stock" as women and the differentation process does not erase certain vestiges of the embryonic template. Any cultural institution such as religion or other customs have at least one feature--the ability to replicate itself. For example, almost any religion which does not dominate the fabric of its particular social milieu (wow the first time I've used that word) must have an evangelistic arm in order to get fresh blood. I live in Gilbert, AZ, which is a stronghold of Mormons. You can see them riding their bikes wearing black dress pants and white shirts--the men that is. They must have ways to get people in, and they must have ways to keep them in.
So for a music to survive, it must have a reason or a path to survival. In many cases, it is simply a feature of a society, one of its defining marks, like language, clothes, or other traditions. Greeks and Gypsies and Jews are known to have strong mores to marry within their own cultural group. Presumably their music must have a similiar advantage to have existed.
Or maybe it is more analagous to the food of a group. It is what they are raised on, and thus it becomes their taste by default. By starting someone young on the music, they will be fans of it for life. Fondness for the taste of salt is a cultural phenomenon, one so strongly ingrained in many societies that it seems instinctual. Yet perhaps music is not accorded such prestige in most groups that other things, such as marriage norms and the traditions of food, enjoy. Maybe that is why it is often the most salient feature of youthful rebellion.
Yet not everyone rebels, and not all rebels remain so. The music remains a feature of conservatism, to which many return. In the West, we did have flower children with their protest songs, sure. But how many of these returned to the fold, made a killing on Wall Street, and yuppied their way straight into the Republican Party and into the party of Bush? Frank Sinatra is still certainly a strong figure, representing the time when it was cool to smoke, be "bad", Caucasian, and proud of it in America.
It's interesting to note that some forms of music persist in some form after the cultures in which they were formerly created and ensconced disappeared. For example, the society that created the American blues is no longer the the keeper of that flame. It is a different group, with a different geography and ethnicity that attends the blues festivals, buys the digitally remastered CDs, plays the guitars. Perhaps the same thing will occur with flamenco.
In these cases, it seems that there is something attractive or persistent about such music that will cross cultural boundaries and evangelistically snare new converts. Flamenco must have some good genes, too!
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Mar. 10 2006 13:59:11
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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You cant say "music". There are aspects of it: as a product/ware, as a social identity, as propaganda, and for some its just music.
I think I belong to the last group. Music to me is like food for my thoughts. Thats why it wouldnt make sense to me to listen to Rap or Metal.
Someone who sells music and sees it as a product, he wants to make it a popular as possible. He uses the social identity of the artist for example Eminem, to say: "poor guy (targeted customer group) comes from ghetto and makes money", to give the illusion everybody could be an Eminem. In fact HE has chosen Eminem to give him a contract, because he thought it would be profitable!
Ok I mean a company always has the aim to make profit, that is understandable to me.
What I find funny is when artists see their own music as product. Once you see it that way you agreed on competition with the BIG record labels and you'll loose, coz its the BIG labels that make the money not the small ones. So, any commercial utilization of music is false. Both from commercial aspect AND from musical aspect, coz in the end it will always be the profitability that dominates YOU not vice versa.
Some will say: But the musician has to make a living from it doesnt he? I would say of course but then you have to change the system, coz THIS way is wrong.
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Date Mar. 10 2006 15:16:21
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seanm
Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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RE: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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First you have to decide what you want to be. If you want to be a great guitarist, then stay at home and practice. When you can play to a level that you think is great, then you're done. If you want to be a great artist, then you have to play to a level that you think is great and other musicians see as great and respect. If you want to be a great performer then you have to give an audience what they want. And that is the huge, huge difference between being a good guitarist and being a working professional. The more you have to give multiplied by the more people that want it = more success. I think it is naive to think that successful people who aren't talented are just lucky. I argue that they found something they have to offer (stage presence, good looks, great interviews, sob story, whatever) and they milked it. What do you want to be. Satisfied with playing at home and really well? Being the star of a 100 person annual guitar festival once a year? Drawing a crowd of 2000 playing a few rumbas? There is nothing wrong with any of these choices. I spent most of my time practicing, then some performing, almost no advertising or self promotion. In the end I realized I just wanted to play guitar and have some peer recognition. I don't crave the applause of crowds otherwise I'd be out seeking that. I think it is unfair to be judgemental of a lesser talent because they are 'unjustly' successful.
Sean
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Date Mar. 10 2006 16:14:59
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST... (in reply to seanm)
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Stage presence, sob stories, interviews...sounds like a great recipe for a guitar virtuoso/QVC pitchman. :)
Sean I think nailed it in that artists and pop stars are really doing two different things, two different vocations. Pop stars are products just like breakfast cereal or Bud Lite. Sure there is a certain substance or craft to their essence, but the packaging and the promotions are by far the greater part of it. They are not intrinsically musicians, but images or pop culture experiences.
Then there is the artist who is obsessed with expressing his vision or fully realizing his potential at the art. The trouble comes when people get confused between these two "jobs". Of course part of the marketing of the former is to claim that artistry is part of it.
However part of the strange relationship is that some pop stars get caught up in artistry and some artists get caught up in money. I mean, we all laugh when rock bands have problems deciding the "artistic vision" or break up for "artistic reasons." Just play the damn guitar and get your money for nothing and your chicks for free, right? :)
And then you have the artists grumbling because they are poor and jealous of the success of the pop stars. "I play a lot better than that guy, but here I am playing at this resort and he's rich." It's a problem of confusion I think.
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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 10 2006 18:36:53
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST... (in reply to seanm)
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quote:
I think it is naive to think that successful people who aren't talented are just lucky. I argue that they found something they have to offer (stage presence, good looks, great interviews, sob story, whatever) and they milked it. What do you want to be. Satisfied with playing at home and really well? Being the star of a 100 person annual guitar festival once a year? Drawing a crowd of 2000 playing a few rumbas? There is nothing wrong with any of these choices. I spent most of my time practicing, then some performing, almost no advertising or self promotion. In the end I realized I just wanted to play guitar and have some peer recognition. I don't crave the applause of crowds otherwise I'd be out seeking that. I think it is unfair to be judgemental of a lesser talent because they are 'unjustly' successful.
Sean, I think that a lot of what you said above reminds me of Manitas De Plata!  The guy may not have been a great Flamenco guitarist, or even pretended to be one (for all I know). But apparently he had some sort of charisma and "stage presence" that made him popular. I have no idea what Manitas' motives for playing the guitar were, but I'm wondering if "charming the ladies" wasn't one of them, like is mentioned in another thread!
Miguel, thanks for your post. I seems you have your thinking hat on... I have to admit that I am regularly suprised by your ability to come up with reasonably rational answers to some quite frustrating questions!
Deniz, to be honest I didn't consider music as an "industrial" or "commercial" entity, which may have been a mistake. I was more referring to music as an "artform" which I thought tended to be done "for arts sake" (or for its own sake), and popularity was a secondary consideration. But in retrospect, perhaps the commercial side of music is inseperable from its creative side. I'm sure 99% of artists (be it fine art or music) would probably consider money, or at least financial subsistance as one of their primary motives. Maybe it is possible for all forms of art to at least be conscious of their "commercial potential", and then expoit this to some degree. I see no reason why Flamenco should be different.
Thanks again,
Jb
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Date Mar. 10 2006 18:39:06
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