Knowing how low you can go

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Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

Knowing how low you can go

Since my left thumb is giving me jip these days both off and on the guitar I was thinking of trying a lower action at the bridge to try to maximise playability at the expense of tone.

Are there any tricks to work out how low you can go without fret buzz becoming unbearably ridiculous? I mean, you could get some bone, file away at it, put it in and realise you took off too much, at which point you'd have to start again on a different bit of bone. This could waste several bits of bone unless there is some trick to estimating how low you need to go before hand.

Hope that makes sense.

Dudthumb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 0:49:17

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Since my left thumb is giving me jip these days both off and on the guitar I was thinking of trying a lower action at the bridge to try to maximise playability at the expense of tone.

Are there any tricks to work out how low you can go without fret buzz becoming unbearably ridiculous? I mean, you could get some bone, file away at it, put it in and realise you took off too much, at which point you'd have to start again on a different bit of bone. This could waste several bits of bone unless there is some trick to estimating how low you need to go before hand.

Hope that makes sense.

Dudthumb

Measure it...I think it's 2:1 or something simple like that. Meaning, take a bone down a millimeter the action goes down 0.5. Don't mess with the nut at all.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 0:56:48

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

Palm mute right after the saddle and gradually press down while plucking. When it starts to buzz, measure what's the height at the 12th. Cut the saddle so that it will be at least slightly above that 12th fret measurement.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 1:08:15

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Hmm thanks guys.

Measure what? I suppose that was my question.

Can't get my head / hand around how to do flamenco technique with a palm mute. But if I press down with a I can picado a few notes with i and m. Pressing down more or less hard- fret a few different things with the left hand and "measure" by eye at the 12th.

Or are you saying ditch the left hand and use it to hold a measure? But then you wouldn't know if it's only going to buzz when fretting at the 4th (for example).

Seems a hit and miss affair.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 1:32:27

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

Measure what? I suppose that was my question.

Can't get my head / hand around how to do flamenco technique with a palm mute.

Measure the height at the 12th fret.

It's about taking a measurement one string at a time, not playing bulerias.

You just have to remember that the minimum height will be a bit more than the measured height because of the dampening effect of the palm mute... and pluck the string hard.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 1:41:48

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Sorry dude - I'm just not seeing the full picture here. I suppose you mean I should be playing open strings right? If you're fretting notes you can't measure at the same time.

Thanks for the Testament clip - helped vent some frustration about the a solea falsetta I'm struggling to transcribe

Opening falsetta on that Indio Gitano clip Ricardo posted on the solea thread - any takers?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 2:10:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

You can test with the strings open and fretted but the measurement will be taken with them open for consistency in readings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 2:14:08

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Sr. Martins)

OK, finally got it. Muchas Gracias Amigo!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 2:33:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

Lowering the action wont help your left hand thumb unless you have a ridiculously high action.

As Ricardo said, lowering 1mm (which is a lot) at the sadlle = lowering 0.5mm at 12th fret = aprox 0.25mm at 5th fret and aprox 0.12mm at the 2nd fret.
Try meassuring 0.2mm
You could try with a set of low tension strings if you havent already done.

Your left hand thumb problem is something different and honestly, I dont think it has to do with your guitar. You are doing something wrong or you have a seriously bad injury. If its the first, work on that. If its the second, take a looong break and dont start again untill you can do things differently because if not, you will very easily end up having the same problem again.
Have you found out if you have some kind of artritis/artrosis or whatever its called in english?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 7:49:31

DavRom

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Since my left thumb is giving me jip these days both off and on the guitar...

I'm with Anders on this. i bet there's something going on that won't be helped by changing the action

stay healthy!

"Dudthumb"

nice that you keep a sense of humor. i don't think i could

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 8:39:46

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

If you allow me I want to give you some advice. Give it a try.

The thumb pressiure is sometimes unneccesary big.
Mostly unconsious. Try the next thing.

Take the guitar playing position that you are used to.
Make sure, with the right arm and body, the guitar it is (extremely) firm and secure.
Try now to play with the left thumb fróm the fretboard (not touch the guitar with the thumb).

You will see it is possible to play without using your thumb. Not good, but that is not importand.
Try this everytime before you play. This way you make yourself Consious of the "unnecessary" pressiure you use.

Think about this a lot when you play normal. Hope this will solve your problem in the future.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 9:07:55

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

One thing I have seen a lot in CG videos, is to not the press hard with your left hand but to let "gravity" apply the force from the hand to the strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2016 20:19:52

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to gerundino63)

Thanks for these ideas guys. I'm gonna try them all!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2016 0:59:59

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

You may also find the neck itself is causing you an issue. Not as likely but I know of a few guitarists that have to play on either a thicker or a thinner neck. I get thumb ache if the neck is too thin around 20.5mm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2016 8:51:17

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

uhhh, 20.5 is very slim.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2016 15:26:23

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

it is very slim. My preferred neck depth is 22mm but I have made 20mm in the past for the thin neck lovers!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2016 20:04:55

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Knowing how low you can go (in reply to Dudnote)

The shape of the neck shoulders also contribute to different width perception in the hand.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2016 21:32:34