String Squeaks

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String Squeaks

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

String Squeaks

There was an entertaining programme on BBC Radio 4 about the problems of the performing arts.
John Williams is one of the contributors, speaking about the problem of string squeak.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/pip/st72l/

He speaks throughout the programme, but the main part starts at 10mins 56 seconds.

cheers

Ron

PS: Todd...the guy mentions that string squeaks can be edited out in a studio.
How do they do that...is it with filtering or noise cancellation techniques?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2005 13:13:42

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: String Squeaks (in reply to Ron.M)

so semi polished D string, that's cheating :D

also good talk about position playing ...comparison with cello and violin,hmm

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2005 14:28:44

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: String Squeaks (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron;

It takes many of the “artists” of today about 1 ½ years from the time recording a CD begins until the sound engineer has it ready. You should see the things that they can do!

Then there was Sabicas, who would walk into the studio, record and then leave. After a few hours he was through and the sound engineer had nothing to do.

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2005 23:20:37

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: String Squeaks (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron,
Regarding your question, "can sqeaks be removed digitally?"

Not that i know of. I think many people, like the DJ in question,
assume that can be done, because "Hey, look at all the technical
marvels in audio today" They automatically assume things
like that are possible. But they just arent.
There are frustrated players out there, that wishfully believe
its true, because it makes them feel like, hey, the pro's squeak too,
they just edit it out.
But no, thats not the case. Fact is, they simply PLAY WELL. Go figure...[8|

The process in question would involve some way to
enter the Wav file, and attenuate only the squeak sound, while
leaving the guitar sound alone.
From what i know, there's no way to isolate two different sounds
that exist within the same wav file.

It would be like, say you had a recording of a Guitar and a Saxophone,
both recorded at the same time, in mono, to a single track, or wav file.
Now, there's no way to digitally remove the sax sound from the recording.
Its in there. Thats it. Similar issue. The squeak is there. YOu cant touch
it without disturbing the guitar.

If this technology does exist, i dont know about it.

You could however, use a band-sensative compressor to attenuate
the squeak slightly, but it would rather painstaking, and the results
wouldnt be that much better. If you were to just reduce the volume
of the squeaks between notes, it would sound completely unatural as well.

The moral is, learn to play without squeaking. It can be done.
It takes work. But only if you play classical.

For flamenco!????? Who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2005 0:04:14

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: String Squeaks (in reply to Ron.M)

hmm ...cant u edit the sound wave?

like i tried this ....not vey good mic so ...when i record i think the A is 440hz.
To advance a semitone A# is 440 * (440 at the power 1/12)
When there is an octave , the frequency doubles cause 1/12+1/12+....=1
Anyway , cant you estimate at what frequency is your instrument sounding
and work with a filter ...to take out all from a frequency up ,and from from a
frequency down?(to take out the noises)

I think what I say is correct but not entirely,so where am I wrong(cause I know
I'm wrong, my adobe audition seems not to agree with me).
Does it have to do with too much math like Fourier series or things like that?
Do the noises are ....hmm,just in the same register as the guitar or what's
the problem?As I understend, u always lose some frequencies when u do mp3s,
so what's the problem ...the problem is that the noise and the guitar are at the
same frequency?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2005 0:22:07

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: String Squeaks (in reply to sorin popovici)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sorin popovici
so what's the problem ...the problem is that the noise and the guitar are at the
same frequency?

No, its more complicated than that. Take a look at the spectrum when someone is playing a classical guitar piece. Freeze it at any moment -even when the player is on a single note -and you will see a broad spectrum, not a single frequency, due to all the overtones produced (compare this with the same note produced by an artificial tone generator to see the difference.)

The squeak would cover a fairly broad band too, so unless the squeak exists in isolation (eg in a clean gap, which is quite possible) it is very difficult to get at it without also altering the guitar as Todd says. Bit like trying to remove the sugar after you've stirred it into tea - why bother when you can just make another cup of tea?

In this case, its easier to play the squeaked section again and drop it in, which is what most producers would do. I read an interview with one major player (Vicente maybe?) where he said they'll spend about a day in the studio on each falseta getting it right.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2005 8:26:15