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wrist pain...unbelievable
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Francisco
Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA
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 RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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Hola muchach-os (itas?),
Thanks for the replies, i've really been stressed out about this. The sources of stress are many, but the guitar playing has kept the other stressors at bay till now. So I really appreciate all of your input.
Cheston>> I wish I had your faith in medical doctors. I work in the medical field, and even completed 2 years of medical school when I decided it wasn't for me. If you go to an orthopedist - he'll want to operate, if you go to an internist - he'll prescribe you medicines, if you go to a chiropractor - he'll do manipulations. I know how it works, and I have to say I have far more faith in my body's own ability to heal itself. Sure, there are life threatening conditions (cancer, myocardial infarction, diabetes, hypertension) that require medical attentioin, but their ability to adequately deal with chronic pain issues is not very reassuring. I can see it now, "Sorry Mr. Flamenco Guitarist, we've done all we can, here's a referal to an anesthesiologist who specializes in chronic pain, who will inject you with nerve blocking agents that only last a few days, and do nothing to treat the cause". No thank you! Thanks again my friend.
Miguel>> Unfortunately, I have not been acquainted with Mrs. Patience for some time, but I get the the impression that God is trying to reintroduce us. I haven't played for almost a month so I have been reading alot, but most of my sources all seem to start saying the same thing. They tend to focus on prevention, and most of the treatment discussed is aimed at improving posture and reducing tension, most of which I've already been doing, with the exception of taking regular breaks. We have started to use computers much more where I work, and I think this may have contributed. As far as the singing and dancing go, well I'm not a huge fan of cante, and the only thing I really like about baile is when there is a really hot chica performing it.  If the injury doesn't improve, and I'm not able to play anymore, then I'll probably turn to luthiery.
Koella>> If by "bow your 2 and 3 finger and then try to stretch them" you mean flexing my wrist towards me then stretching my fingers back, then no, that does not hurt at all. In fact, I can stretch my finger in both directions and no pain. Here's when I feel it the most:
1. place my thumb of my right hand on the palmar surface of my left hand right at the area of the first big nuckle of my index finger, then wrap the fingers of my right hand around my left hand where my right hand fingers lay across the big nuckle joing of m-a-x of my left hand. Then extending my wrist (bend it back slightly) and slightly rotate by using my thumb to press on the index nuckle while lifting the m-a-x nuckles. This produces a counter-clockwise rotation.
2. I also feel in the following chord progression:
E---0----0
B---3----3
G---3----3
D---2----3
A---3----1
E---x----x
When I hit that second chord, and my index is on A#, I also feel the pain. The pain isn't all that bad (depending on how many Margaritas I've had), but it makes me really nervous. I noticed that I was putting far to much pressure on the index finger one day prior to the injury, and thought that I had fixed the problem. I guess I injured it enough prior to becoming aware of it that it was too little too late.
Anyway, I've started taking Glucosamine, antiinflammatories and increased my daily dosage of flaxseed oil, all in an attempt to decrease inflammation. I'm trying to have faith that I'll get over this, but I can't help but get nervous from time to time as evidenced by this thread. Thanks for helping reassure me.
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Date Nov. 20 2005 10:17:35
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: samwise
Cheston>> I wish I had your faith in medical doctors. I work in the medical field, and even completed 2 years of medical school when I decided it wasn't for me. If you go to an orthopedist - he'll want to operate, if you go to an internist - he'll prescribe you medicines, if you go to a chiropractor - he'll do manipulations. I know how it works, and I have to say I have far more faith in my body's own ability to heal itself.
I understand your concerns with this.
Sam, I have focal hand dystonia, a condition directly related to bad practice on my part which I have now had for 5 years. 'Luckily' for me it is painless as it is a neurological problem rather than tissue damage, but nevertheless it has been incredibly difficult to deal with, especially the stress factor, so I know where you are coming from.
I would suggest you seek out help from a therapist that specialises in musician's injuries (yes they do exist). After several years of searching, I am currently getting therapy here: http://www.bapam.org.uk/
No surgery, no medecine, no manipulations, no injections. All my therapy exercises are about getting the body to heal itself.
Ok, my condition is different to yours, but the point is I am seeing someone with an overview of conditions and treatment options, who isn't bent on one particular medical model of treatment. My therapist is a specialist in hand conditions affecting musicians and she has just returned from lecturing in the states, and I know there is loads of similar stuff over there for musicians you just have to track down the right people.
Good luck.
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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Date Nov. 21 2005 8:28:16
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Francisco
Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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Hola todos,
Carlos>> I feel for you brother, because I know how distressing the thought of giving up the guitar can be, but like I said earlier, if I can't play 'em, I'll build 'em. Thanks for your input, and hang in there.
Jon>> I'm sorry to hear about your condition, but I'm glad it doesn't cause you any pain. I've been sort of scouting different clinics here in Texas, but they just all seem to be about the money. For example, here is an excerpt from the link you posted:
quote:
Performers are also generally on low incomes, 66% of Musicians'’ Union members earn less than £7,500 pa whilst 86% of Equity members earn under £6,600 pa. They can’t afford private health insurance and they may well keep working even when they are ill to keep earning.
If a performer visits you with a complaint that does not seem to be responding to treatment, for example chronic back pain, an upper limb disorder or anxiety or depression, all you need to do is give him or her our phone number. The performer then phones our helpline and we will book them in for a free assessment. The assessment by one of our volunteer GPs or Consultants lasts 30 to 40 mins. This gives our doctors time to look at all aspects of the performer’s lifestyle and performance technique. At the end of the assessment the doctor will discuss possible conventional and complementary treatments with the patient.
You will never see a clinic doing anything free here in the states. In fact, one doctor who specializes in this sort of injury is willing to do a phone consultation at a rate of $75 for 30 minutes. LOL Over the phone, no MRI (which will cost me $1000 out of pocket with my current insurance), no other 'real' diagnostics - what a sham. I know it's just a matter of hooking up with the right clinic, but I also know the good ones are few and far between.
A quick question about your therapy, Jon, if I may? What exactly does it consist of? Are you familiar with the Feldenakrais Technique?
I think I'm going to stick with the dietary changes I stated earlier, and I'm going to Barnes N Noble to see if I can find the book Miguel suggested earlier. In addition, I've been alternating a heating pad with a cold compress for about 20 minutes each for just one cycle, and after just the 40 minutes my wrist felt incredible. I know it's symptomatic relief only, but it felt so good that I picked up the guitar for a few minutes. I did feel the tension after a little while, but I was careful. I did this to see if I could determine what position/technique exactly could be the cause. This isn't a very specific assessment as it is difficult to determine if the position caused the pain or if my wrist is just aggravated by those positions, but I'll be sure to be aware when I get past this. Yes, it WILL pass! Thanks again for all your words of encouragement.
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Date Nov. 21 2005 9:12:37
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: samwise
You will never see a clinic doing anything free here in the states. In fact, one doctor who specializes in this sort of injury is willing to do a phone consultation at a rate of $75 for 30 minutes. LOL
Well my FIRST consultation was free, funded through BAPAM, which is a charity. However, I am now paying £40 for 30mins which is not far off your $75 - and is actually subsidised ie I am paying half the therapist's normal rate which would be £80 for 30 minutes ($137). Thats life, I'm afraid.
A lot of money, yes, but you have to ask yourself how important it is to you. What value do you place on your health and specifically your ability to play a musical instrument?
quote:
A quick question about your therapy, Jon, if I may? What exactly does it consist of? Are you familiar with the Feldenakrais Technique?
I've heard of it though I am not familiar with it. My therapy is mainly sensory re-education plus some hand strengthening.
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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Date Nov. 21 2005 11:07:35
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Francisco
Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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quote:
Well my FIRST consultation was free, funded through BAPAM, which is a charity. However, I am now paying £40 for 30mins which is not far off your $75 - and is actually subsidised ie I am paying half the therapist's normal rate which would be £80 for 30 minutes ($137). Thats life, I'm afraid.
A lot of money, yes, but you have to ask yourself how important it is to you. What value do you place on your health and specifically your ability to play a musical instrument?
I hope I don't come across as a tight wad (American for penny pincher), but things are tight at the moment due to school etc. I will have money, but not now. Besides $75 for a 30 therapeutic session hardly compares to a thirty minute phone call. Make no mistake, this is very important for me, but as the sole provider of my family, if it comes down to it, I will have to find a new hobby if I don't get over this. Thanks again for your help Jon
Henry>>Thanks, I was already giving it a try as i was trying to think of a reply for Jon withouth coming across as ungrateful. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Date Nov. 21 2005 11:24:38
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Francisco
Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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Hi everyone,
gtrr66>> Yes I do use a computer alot, at work and some at home (half of my education is internet based at the moment). I do use the mouse with my left hand where I'm having the problems, but I've started using one of those wrist braces that helps to keep my wrist straight which is key to reducing tension during certain activities at work. In fact, I have it on right now. I'm not sure what to think about the botox therapy, but if it works then why not. I don't think I would ever consider it a choice though, but never say never right?
By the way, do you know where Botox is from? It's a protein from the bacteria Clostridium botulinum - the same bacteria that causes botulism. It's apparently helpful for dystonia, so Jon, if your therapy ever stops working for your dystonia - botox could be an alternative.?
http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic585.htm
Ryan>>I'm all for alternative (naturopathic) medicine. There used to be a local MD that did a 5 year fellowship in China concentrated in alternative Chineese medicine. I hadn't heard about him for a while (about a year), and when I first started having problems with my wrist, he was the first person I thought of. I tried looking him up, but he was gone. This area doesn't seem to keep good help around. I think I may give acupuncture a serious try if my current regiment doesn't help.
Thanks again for your input guys. The wrist feels a little better, I don't feel the "ache". It's been in a brace all day tho.
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Date Nov. 21 2005 20:50:50
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Francisco
Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA
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RE: wrist pain...unbelievable (in reply to Francisco)
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Hola todos,
Here's a little update.
Since my last post, I've been doing the exercises Henry recommended. I've been doing them very regularly recently: while driving, reading, watching TV etc. I then started to apply heat with a heating pad. One night, after about 10 minutes of a heating pad, I held my wrist with my right hand trying to find the pain, and to make a long story short, I started to squeeze with my right hand while moving my left wrist around when I hear a "pop". It was the sort of sound your knuckles make when you pop them. This freaked me out at first, but my wrist felt great afterwards. It wasn't completely healed as the pain returned the next day, but again I performed the same: tai-chi, heating pad, then manipulation. Had the same result.
At that point, I sought the help of a professional. A local chiropracter took my history and physical exam, then he said what I thought he would. In short, "sounds like you need a little physical therapy". He gave me a referral to a physical therapist. I went to see the physical therapist earlier this week, and told her the exercises and therapy I've been doing so far (tai-chi, stretching, heating pad etc.) as well as the dietary (glucosamine, low protein, anti-inflammatories). She recommended that I add some exercises to strengthen the wrist joint. Basically, while my arm is resting on my leg, take a dumbell, and only using my wrist, lift and lower the weight. Slowly, for about 20 reps. Then flip the arm over and perform the same movement. This is the second day with this regimen, and it feels pretty good.
I haven't picked up the guitar seriously in a while (going on 2 months?), but maybe soon.
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Date Dec. 9 2005 17:53:52
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