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Best mic/pickup solution for concerts?   You are logged in as Guest
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Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

Best mic/pickup solution for concerts? 
I currently play a bit in a flamenco/indian fusion group. We have quite a few instruments on stage, a laptop, a cajón etc. and often we are forced to play on very cramped stages and using a microphone for the guitar has led to lots of feedback problems in the past. So currently the solution is a contact microphone/pickup on the guitar. However it sounds really terrible, plastic/tinny sound. I currently use one that costs about $40 so that may be the reason.

I am willing to spend a decent amount of money on a better solution, so my question is - is there one? Or is this sound quality issue inherent in all pickup/contact microphone solutions? Can anyone recommend something?

Appreciating any suggestions.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2011 18:08:29
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
I don't have one of these, but recently all guitarists who play in Casa Patas in Madrid use one of these DPA 4099.

But they are not cheap. About 600 bucks

Could be an alternative

btw, i think the sound which you hear in the videos is recorded by camera. so consider that the actual sound is better.

sounds very natural to me. and i think nearly no more feedback problems. at leasts thats what they say about their Mic.









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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2011 19:21:18
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
Thanks!!! Looks like I'll be getting one of these soon. From what I have read they also seem to be more than suitable for regular home recording situations so I'll be killing two birds with one stone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2011 9:10:23
 
Esteve de Londres

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 19 2010
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
For the last year or so I have been using an Audio Technica Pro 70 clip on mic. Ive been happy with the results so far. Good balanced sound and volume with no feedback. It's fairly cheap too
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2011 7:40:42
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2011 13:16:09
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
quote:

I don't have one of these, but recently all guitarists who play in Casa Patas in Madrid use one of these DPA 4099.


I saw Antonio Moya in Paris last night... he was using this pickup and it sounded amazing!! Has anyone here actually tried it?

I think that I might get one soon!

Saludos!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 12:06:19
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
me and my buddy are going to buy two of these soon.
will probably make a review as soon as we tried them and played a gig or two with them. i would also be interested in experience from others who already used this mic.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 12:15:03
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
Cool man! I'll be looking forward to your review!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 12:37:13
 
etta

 

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
Like Esteve, I really like the Audio Technica Pro 70 clip on. I clip it to a mike stand rather than to the guitar. The sound quality is very natural, good volume, virtually no feed back, and it is inexpensive. I have found it better for me than the Barlett clip on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 13:00:32
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1892
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to avimuno) 
i got mine two days ago, used it at a rehearsal, with no problems, plus made a home recording, crystal clear sound...my only issue is that it makes the basses less dirty than i like them to be, otherwise, the perfect mic! cost me 420 euros after a bit of negotiating...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 15:45:02
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ

i got mine two days ago, used it at a rehearsal, with no problems, plus made a home recording, crystal clear sound...my only issue is that it makes the basses less dirty then i like them to be, otherwise, the perfect mic! cost me 420 euros after a bit of negotiating...


would you upload that home recorded piece (or at least a part of it)?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 16:28:47
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1892
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Arash) 
here you go: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=233228&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2013 18:06:27
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
I have a dpa 4099 ,and yes it the best for live,but not for home studio,
because there are too much proximity with the guitar,if you want pure sound in studio,no this mic.

It exist a chinese copy :Tbone ovid,with very good results for the price,73 euros....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 12:56:27
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero

I have a dpa 4099 ,and yes it the best for live,but not for home studio,
because there are too much proximity with the guitar,if you want pure sound in studio,no this mic.

It exist a chinese copy :Tbone ovid,with very good results for the price,73 euros....


yes saw the tbone at thomann.de
so how is the sound in comparison to DPA?
is the price difference 70 to 450 worth it in your opinion or do we get almost the same results with the tbone?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2013 13:44:37
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
the same results i dont think but really for the price it's a real good mic

watch this thread ,it's french there are sample of the two mic

http://www.onf-contrebasse.com/forum/topic3674.html

the sample:

http://maryse.gattegno.free.fr/forum/comp-dpa-ovid/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2013 21:46:45
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero

the same results i dont think but really for the price it's a real good mic

watch this thread ,it's french there are sample of the two mic

http://www.onf-contrebasse.com/forum/topic3674.html

the sample:

http://maryse.gattegno.free.fr/forum/comp-dpa-ovid/


Can you do me a favour? (since you have both mics)
Can you see if you can install the tbone mic on the CLIP from DPA? (if it fits).
I was reading some other reviews and the guitar clip of the tbone seams to be not so good and since the DPA clip only costs 10 euros more (tbone clip 20 euros, DPA clip 30 euros at thomann) i wanted to see if i could use the tbone with the DPA clip.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2013 8:32:50
 
Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Arash) 
quote:


I don't have one of these, but recently all guitarists who play in Casa Patas in Madrid use one of these DPA 4099.

But they are not cheap. About 600 bucks

Could be an alternative

btw, i think the sound which you hear in the videos is recorded by camera. so consider that the actual sound is better.

sounds very natural to me. and i think nearly no more feedback problems. at leasts thats what they say about their Mic.



Ugh... the sound in Casa Patas is the worst ever... Played there serveral times but these mics were horrible. Don't try them with negras

The best in my opinion is the usual cardiod dynamic or condenser "handheld" mic for live purposes. The thing for me personally with clip on mics that I can not decide the "sweet spot" of that certain sound on a certain moment I get out of my guitar in relation to the mic. These vary a lot for me. Like with singers, singing in the mic is always going back forward sidewards to put more feeling and dynamics in it. I dont like the shows where singers have the clip on mics constantly on one location near their mouth.

But I understand the need for clip on mics. Id like to have one myself for solo gigs. Less things to carry with me. No mic stand (which I hate transporting).

There was a barlett hype on the foro for a while two years ago. What happened? Not good anymore? I was thinking of getting me one of the Barletts actually
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2013 10:54:07
 
Don Dionisio

 

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Rmn) 
I've been using the Bartlett clip on mic and I like it a lot. It's really good when you are playing in a noisy environment where you would have to constantly readjust a regular mic. I think it produces a natural sound and can handle a lot of volume before feedback.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2013 16:53:00
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Don Dionisio) 
I agree, I just purchased a Bartlett Guitar Mic B and it works great. I talked to Bruce as I wanted an on/off switch installed so I could easily turn the mic off inorder to tune with out having to change the volume. I couldn't be happier with his service and attention to detail. It works much better than our old set up of using a Shure mic on a stand. The best part is the ability to get a great crisp uncluttered sound without feedback issues and the ability to not clutter the performance area with stands and such...
Sig--
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2013 21:21:05
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14823
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
They key is signal to noise ratio. When playing with others. You need most volume and control over sound with no feedback. Trade off is what we guitarists think is "natural" sound of guitar we want retained. NOT POSSIBLE. So it is a see saw and you must deal with that. either you play quiet venue or you deal with signal processing. Assuming you have good amp (more watts equal clarity not volume) and speaker horn and speaker position (sometimes monitors help, but not always necessary if you can hear it ok).

AFter much time spent with venues and equipment here are best 3 options in order of VOLUME and control. We assume you have the best possible mixer/amp/speaker combo.

1. piezo under saddle only. You can play loud over drums and such no feedback. The plastic sound issue can be subdued by good eq and personal playing touch, but it is a major sacrifice to "natural" tone. But no comparison to any microphone set up.
2. Piezo/internal mic blend. THese on board gagets such as FISHMAN etc, really get you that volume and you can push the mic to edge of feedback knowing if it does you can deal with it yourself while playing. The mic takes the edge off piezo and lets things like attack and golpe give enough of the "natural" feel you miss with just a piezo. But of course, the piezo is the main reason you can be heard over the other instruments clearly. Volume knobs and such on both 1, and 2 really help with the trading lead and rhythm thing.
3. Shure Beta 87A super close to sound hole. THis mic really good at not feeding back or bleeding. But you have to play close up on it, like you are "eating" the mic. The guitar will balance just fine by rolling off the bottom end a bit. You can really crank the level but just careful of playing position. YOu can't move much (an inch) or you lose all the volume. But you get the natural sound of the guitar which is ideal. It can get you pretty close to a Piezo volume level if you do it right. But, dynamics are the issue. You can back off a hair for rhythm for example but then you don't have the same eq anymore, guitar loses bass as you back off.

And any other type of mic you try will probably be similar to number 3 except most bleed outside instruments or feedback pretty quickly in my experience. You just have to play with less volume relatively speaking, even though you might get a nice tone. THere is the option too of a volume pedal if the issue is cutting through with a lead melody thing. In the end we must forgive the guitar as it is really meant to be an INTIMATE instrument.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2013 22:03:59
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
They key is signal to noise ratio. When playing with others. You need most volume and control over sound with no feedback. Trade off is what we guitarists think is "natural" sound of guitar we want retained. NOT POSSIBLE. So it is a see saw and you must deal with that. either you play quiet venue or you deal with signal processing. Assuming you have good amp (more watts equal clarity not volume) and speaker horn and speaker position (sometimes monitors help, but not always necessary if you can hear it ok).

AFter much time spent with venues and equipment here are best 3 options in order of VOLUME and control. We assume you have the best possible mixer/amp/speaker combo.


Agree with general thrust of all this, but you are missing out a whole family of pick up types - soundboard transducers (SBT). These in turn can be used in addition to internal mic or under saddle transducer (UST) etc and mixed accordingly. K& K, Schertler, Pick up The world are examples of decent makes.

I had a Pick up the World trio system installed in my Ricardo Sanchis (2 SBTs mounted under bridge plate internally plus ust) and I play in a duo with a guy who has guitars with a typical internal mic/ust blend system. He has a Baggs system in one (better than Fishman IMO) and a much more expensive high end system in another (DTAR).

We play some very noisy environments - weddings with 100s of people, busking in busy town centres etc, and he can blend in a little mic before feedback - maybe 10%, but basically my system sounds way more 'natural'. Its a thick woody, warm sound, golpes crystal clear and loud, sounds like the guitar is being miked with a dynamic mic. Very dynamic and responsive, and I can dig in and play with no nasty piezo quack whatsover. Zero feedback. I go thru a Baggs PADI for EQ (and to invert the output signal which helps too) straight into PA.

I've used all the setups in your list and have to say I'd put this at no.2, its not as good as miking up with condensers (which we do when we play concerts), but its the second best alternative I've heard/used.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2013 8:00:16
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Rmn) 
quote:



Ugh... the sound in Casa Patas is the worst ever... Played there serveral times but these mics were horrible. Don't try them with negras



I didn't think the clips sounded good, either. I have a Bartlett, I think it is a quality piece of gear. But it still sounds like the inside of a guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2013 15:39:00
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
the beta 87a is for the voice.

If you search mic normal with support,in front of guitar,there lot of choice.

i have an audiotechnica AE5100,very good!

The standard is neumann KM 184

Schoeps are very good

top of top : DPA 4011
but expensive,paco use this micro because he's rich.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2013 12:20:35
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14823
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

the beta 87a is for the voice.


I know but it is really good, and amazing for high frequencies. When you know how to use it the bleed issue is the main reason I prefer to all the others mentioned. I can leave these mics hot and exposed right near speakers and they don't feedback unlike almost any other mic I have used.

quote:

but you are missing out a whole family of pick up types - soundboard transducers (SBT).


hmm, I have always really hated the sound of those things, but maybe the tech has caught up, Ill check em out sometime.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2013 13:18:29
Guest

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
I use a nueman km184 and a DPA 4099
If I need extra volume or signal/gain I use them both together
The DPA at the 15th fret and the nueman pointed towards the bridge
Works fine ...big sound.,,,minimal bleed
I also have a Bartlett which is good for noisy gigs...( in need of repar at present, my own doing not a manufacturer fault)

I think for condensers a preamp before the mixer channel is a bonus
Pre sonus make good budget tube per amps... Avalon have also bought out a reasonably priced unit

Imagine there's a heap of things out there..heard some great results also with dynamic mics, like ricardos suggestion...just never worked for me ....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 28 2013 13:51:40
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: Best mic/pickup solution for con... (in reply to Munin) 
last summer i went to concurso de la union (i dont recommend it's boring) they use this couple of mics alval 4099 and km184,and in a few concert in festival de jerez ,they use too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 29 2013 8:15:19
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