An interesting point for Miguel (de Maria)

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

An interesting point for Miguel (de ...

Mike,
I heard today a program on the Radio which was looking at artistic behaviour in primary schools in the Far East.
The children were about 5 to 6 years old.
They all took the same singing test.
Most of them sounded like "kids", just approximating what they hear...
Most of it just a rabble.
But a couple of them were surprisingly good...
Singing clearly and strongly, using microtones and remaining perfectly in tune and also having a sense of rhythm and expression in their voices.
These kids are far too young to have separate personal training, or to take in the theory of it all.
They are simply same age kids at a primary school.
So what if the really great sounding kid wants to take up Business Studies or Information Technology in his teens?
Or the kid who can't really hold a note, but is fascinated by music?

Not making any real point here...but I know you're interested in this stuff.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2005 20:20:15

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ron.M)

That's interesting. I often feel like that fascinated kid.
Reminds me of the movie "Amadeus". Salieri having all the desire without the exceptional gifts of Mozart. He too was good though through effort.(at least in the movie)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2005 23:18:53

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron,
what happens? I don't know... I'm sure that talent is mostly underutilized in our world because of various inefficiencies in the distribution process. As for why some 5 year old kids can sing and some can't...maybe they listened to Mozart in the crib?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2005 23:53:02

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron, it is all about social conformity!

Let me give you but one example! I have many!

When our daughter was 5 she had to be tested to be allowed to enter kindergarten. How do you test a five year old for preparedness for kindergarten? Read on!

The “examiner” was a lady about 100 years old or so it seemed! The “examiner” gave our daughter a set of eight Crayons and a piece of paper. Her instructions were, “Color a scene with a hill, grass and an apple tree”!

Our daughter was very creative and enjoyed her assignment. Upon completion the “examiner” proclaimed in a most indignant manner: “Why did you color the grass blue, the tree orange and the sky green”. Our daughter replied with the innocence of a five year old, “I like those colors”!

The examiner stated, “Well, I see that your daughter has a mind of her own”! My reply was, “Yes, and that is the first thing that you will want to take from her”!

Conformity is the name of the game in our society. You must be within the norms or you are an outcase!

By the way our daughter has one final exam on Tuesday to graduate from UCLA as an English major. She is presently teaching English as a Second Language at a University in California, and loves it! She remains a very creative person in spite of her educational experience!

My point is that our system does not allow creativity without paying a price. Some of our young show such creativity when they are so young. Too bad we do not allow such things to blosom. After all, you do not want an educational system that turns out people with a mind of his/her own!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 1:29:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ron.M)

In regards to testing those kids, you have to wonder who are the examiner's. I mean we assume they are masters of micro tone singing and rhythm in order to make the assesment on which kid is "talented", but who examines the examiner? What if "firefingers" was examaning a child Paco de lucia?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 16:46:59

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Whoah, whoah...here!
I think everybody is getting this out of context here...
The program was about interesting things on foreign (to the UK) broadcaster's networks.
One of the clips was about looking at artistic talent in primary schools in the Far East.
They featured some of the kids, most of who sang in a "kiddie" out of tune/rhythm style.
Except for these two kids, who sang amazingly...to a very high standard, singing microtonal stuff with great facility and ease.
As a father myself, I know how difficult it is to have your 5 year old sit and eat at the table without a major disaster, so teaching has got to be out of the question.. LOL!
I heard the kids sing with my own ears...and it sounded pretty good to me!
Not only in great pitch control, but rhythm, expression etc..
How do they do that, when their classmates can't?
That's when I thought of Mike and his interest in this subject of talent verus training.
That's all..

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 19:58:58

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: An interesting point for Miguel ... (in reply to Ron.M)

maybe wrong , but i feel like this ...can u tell if the kid has the will or the desire
to do it?Dont know much about small kids,but with a little older kids , it's not that hard to know if he's gonna stay and do this or if he's not gonna progress and he'll just let it go away.I have a friend who tries to pick up some things from me , as much as I know is still better than no teacher.Anyway know I just dont know if she's gonna progress,I mean she's
lazy, doesnt pay attention ...it's kind of frustrating.I dont know ,but I'm used to think like
me...when i had a teacher ,i was always pushing him ...more ,more .Now I dont if I'm gonna learn smth ...probably that will is not all , but I think u got have at least that.
Will is subjective also,some have more or less.
Anyway, i wanna say ...that i would look for that in a kid.Not to mention that teaching whatever to someone who really wants it ,it's rewarding to the teacher too.
I dont know what's with this music thing , but i guess that it shouldnt be that different
from sports , literature , math ,programming,physics or whatever.If he knows how
to play with a ball for 4 hours and he'll rather do that instead of playing sega ...I think he has smth there.
So...probably if u wanna pick your winner from the kids , u got to extend the research
...find out what he likes to do.He wont tell u , there are grown people who dont know
what to do with their lives ...U got to see it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 22:45:51