Cierre!

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Cierre!

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Guest

Cierre!

Hello...

Just one simple question. What is Cierre? is it a start or ...? I'm a bit confused.

thank you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 10:38:47

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

I assume Cierre comes from the verb cerrar which means to close. See http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=cierre

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 11:04:03

Kate

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Joined: Jul. 8 2003

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 11:04:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

Rafael used the expression to describe a "closing" phrase to a group of falsetas...e.g.. the chromatic slide of the "A" shape back to the A you get in Bulerias & Tangos.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 11:05:05

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

I think it means "it closes" from the Spanish

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 11:13:35

Guest

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

Hola

Cierre is the closing of a phrase. Think soleá. 7,8,9,10: F,E,F,E. This is a classic cierre.

The first time I played for a friend por soleá apolá, he said "me has cerrao mucho". It took me a while to realise that the letras of this cante often use more than one compás. The guitar should follow the cante without giving a cierre of this style at the end of each compás, until the singer cierra su cante. Then, on the next 7,8,9,10, the guitar should give a cierre muy fuerte.

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 25 2005 14:03:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

This is really important and unique to flamenco rhythm. The cierre is the "close" of the rhythm, the rhythmic stopping point. Even if the song is not over, the close forces a space into the rhythm cycle. So all the flamenco rhythms seem to have a head and a tail, where the close is on a different beat than the down beat. Most other music syles feel a stopping point on the down beat, and that is what makes flamenco unique. After one gets used to hearing different cierres, it eventually becomes a "feeling" that everyone playing, singing, dancing or doing palmas, simply senses is coming. Pretty much every falseta with compas has some sort of cierre, listen for it. (If not a clear closure, then usually a rhythmic strumming tag that has a cierre.) Learning it in the juergas doing palmas is the best way. BAM!, "why did everybody stop all of a sudden?"

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 26 2005 5:28:51

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

So, what is the difference between a cierre and a remate? Could a cierre be considered a type of remate?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

The guitar should follow the cante without giving a cierre of this style at the end of each compás, until the singer cierra su cante. Then, on the next 7,8,9,10, the guitar should give a cierre muy fuerte.

What do you do on 7,8,9,10 of the 1st compas, just sit on the E for those beats?

Thanks,
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2005 9:19:18

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

The cierre would be at the end of the remate, or the end of the llamada, the end of the falseta, end of the entrada, etc. You could consider the cierre an important part of all those things.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2005 16:52:33

Guest

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Phil)

quote:

What do you do on 7,8,9,10 of the 1st compas, just sit on the E for those beats?

Hola Phil

The singer will determine what you play. The art of accompanying is to seamlessly accompany the cante, while unobtrusively maintaining compas. The most difficult thing is to do this with a singer who has no compas.

I watched Pascual de Lorca do this once, following the cante and restating the compas strongly in the gaps.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2005 9:36:18

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cierre! (in reply to Guest)

quote:

The singer will determine what you play. The art of accompanying is to seamlessly accompany the cante, while unobtrusively maintaining compas. The most difficult thing is to do this with a singer who has no compas.

Yep, which is why it is better to learn accompaniment with a singer that has very good and clear compas, or even better, can do palmas while singing. The guitarist needs first understand how the melody fits in the compas "normally", before trying to chase around a more adventurous singer. A lot of guitarists and dancers understand better the phrasing of the cante than some singers who were simply born with a great voice. This does not of course give them liscense to tell the singer how to sing, rather, they can do more FOR the singer accompaniment wise, to make things fit together.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2005 23:35:21