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20th century classical music and new flamenco
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 20th century classical music and new...
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If you like classical music, this article may interest you:
http://wwics.si.edu/index.cfm?fuseaction=wq.essay&essay_id=115960
It's an argument against modernistic, atonal music. The basic idea is that the trend in modern music in the early 20th century was away from tonal, C F G type consonances, and toward a more austere, dissonant sound. The theory was that the triad-based music of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc., was a historical convention or accident and that new types of music could be just as good. Almost 100 years later, still no one likes it... What interested me were how the arguments for modern classical, about sophistication and progress and liberation, reminded me of the arguments for modern flamenco. If you don't like it, you are told that you just aren't sophisticated enough to understand it! There are differences of course, one being that new flamenco sells better than old flamenco, that being quite different than the situation of modern classical being profoundly unpopular among the public. Anyways, enjoy...
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Date Jun. 28 2005 19:14:53
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: 20th century classical music and... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Mike,
A recent BBC TV series featuring Howard Goodall, a British composer and music historian ventured into this with the view that a lot of 20th century Classical composers had really run out of ideas and it was really folk like the American jazz and (theatre/film) musical composers who took over the baton, in investigation into new ways of making music.
He brought it right up to the mid 20th century with the work of the Beatles, showing by examples, the technicalities of how that music worked so well, while classical music fell into the Doldrums.
My old boss in the University of Glasgow, who was a Classical Violinist came in one day and said "You know...I've been listening to a whole week of Bach....I reckon that man left practically nothing for others to upturn, save the odd few crumbs...."
Myself, I'm finding a renewed joy in a lot of older Flamenco after having gone through a couple of years of doubt that this stuff was over, in the past, finished...and for historical purposes only.
I think probably, in that respect I was just being a victim of fashion.
cheers
Ron
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Date Jun. 28 2005 20:57:13
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Guest
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RE: 20th century classical music and... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
The theory was that the triad-based music of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc., was a historical convention or accident and that new types of music could be just as good. Almost 100 years later, still no one likes it...
I like it. I've always liked it and I will probably like it the rest of my life.
People use to much time on saying what is good and bad and do not listen enough. All arts need to be understood. You dont read Kafka as you read Harry Potter, you dont listen to Haydn the way you listen to Alban Berg, just like you dont look at Kandinsky the way you look at Breughel.
I listen a lot to classical music (more than flamenco) while I work. Maybe some 20 - 30 hours a week, and I enjoy all kinds of classical music. What turns me on at the moment is mostly rennaissance choral music like Monteverdi. (what a beauty) and 20th century orchestral music like Stravinsky, Bartok and Schostakowitch (what a power). I like Mozart, Haydn and all the other "easy listening" composers. But they do not turn me on the same way. They do not take me to the limits of my musical understanding.
I'm proud of being from a country and a lifestyle, where a lot of the tax money goes to devellopment of art, including modern composional music. I'm glad that a lot of people find it important to support artforms which are not what everyone like and that would die if they werent supported. If not we would just have Mozart and oldstyle flamenco (sorry) Nothing wrong with that, but what about progression and experimentation. Art is something alive and should never be "frosen"
Long live art and stop using comercial reasons for something being good or more important than others is what counts for me.
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Date Jun. 29 2005 8:42:52
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Guest
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RE: 20th century classical music and... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Bach is wonderfull, I agree. Fantastic.
I think the Trial is the title of the book Henrik mentions. (processen på svenska?) It's one of the best book I've ever read, and it's considered to be one of the most important in the history of litterature. One of the books that has and still do influence in other writers. But it is a bit greyish brown I admit
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Date Jun. 29 2005 17:45:04
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Guest
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RE: 20th century classical music and... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Of course I remember "SULT" by Hamsun.
I've got another wonderfully depressing one. "Det röda rummet" (The red room) by August Strindberg. or L'age de Raison by J.P. Sartre.
Music for those books: No Future by the Sex Pistols 
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Date Jun. 30 2005 8:35:00
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: 20th century classical music and... (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
or L'age de Raison by J.P. Sartre.
My old boss, the one that I spoke about in a previous post was a Frenchman, and he and his family were actually friends with Samuel Beckett!
He disappointed me (when I was reading "Endgame") by telling me that Beckett was a really funny guy and a very pleasant and charming host when he stayed over at his place.
On the other hand he said he had met Sartre and said he was "an ugly man..in more ways than one".
Well that's the French for ya I suppose..LOL!
cheers
Ron
BTW Mike, The Spy Who Came in from the Cold was written by John le Carre, who also followed it by "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" which was serialised on British TV, the lead character being played by an old washed up, out of date, good in his time actor called Alec Guiness.
It was one of the dreariest programmes going and the low point of the week.
Then Star Wars came along!
And Alec sung "God Bless America" every night before going to bed..LOL!
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Date Jun. 30 2005 21:09:00
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