Accompanieng Baile

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Accompanieng Baile

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Accompanieng Baile

Iam at the moment, accompanieng, a Buleria dance class once a week. The lady who runs it usually uses CDs to accompany the dancers. I can keep Compas no prob, but without an experianced Guitarist to learn from, Iam a bit clueless, plus the fact she speaks no English, and I have no Spanish. My Question is; am I wasting my time, and 2 when, and if one uses Falsetas, when accompanieing dance. I seem to mess things up by starting a falseta, when she is doing a llamada, but I find it impossible to work out when she is going to start one, at which time if I have got it in my mind to play a faseta, then I play a falseta. To avoid this, Iam just bashing out chords, and the occasional key change for the two hour class,of which she seems happy enough, any thopughts appreciated.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2005 9:40:33

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Hi Dave,

I think you should stick with the chords for a while. At least to the point where you feel compelled to introduce a simple falsetta, useualy just a lick on 7,8,9 +10 and build it up from there. It's a lot to do with confidence. Other thing would be, whilst you're battering out the chords, try to be playful with the beats, syncopation, leave empty space and just try to enjoy it because lots of amigos never get this chance to play for dance.

Good luck

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2005 12:42:46

Guest

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

As already stated, I would go with the chords especially at the beginning. Once you're familiar with the choreography you will be able to experiment more. (if you're going weekly you will end up knowing that dance inside out!)I would say you are definitley not wasting your time as you will become more familiar with the structures of different styles the more you do. Karenanne ps what level of class is it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2005 16:36:03

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Lucky!! I wish my dancer would practice buleria. First thing she said was -lets not do bulerias cause im not very good at it

what kind of bul(l) eria talk is that?!?!!

Henrik

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Don't give up...
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2005 16:40:51

aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

In the traditional buleria dance, you can often see a llamada coming as the dancer will usualy take two steps back on beats 8 and 10, or do a similar step to close off whatever marking step they are doing. Find out what CD music the dancer was using - if the dance is designed to fit a particular letra (song verse) you can play the accampanying chords for the letra as if a singer were there, and it will fit the dance. Or you can design a falseta with the same breaks as the letra would have.

Playing falsetas over the dance can work well if the phrasing of the falseta fits the marking step - for instance groups of 2, 3 of 6 beats. Also, watch out for "media compas" (compas of 6 beats) especially if it is a jerez style buleria.

You are not wasting your time - it is out of this kind of chaos and confusion that a deeper understanding of dance accompaniment will come (this has been my experience anyway).

- Aloysius.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2005 0:21:29

Guest

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to aloysius)

Thanks for the advice. I think it was a beginners class originally, but as the weeks go buy they get a little better. The dance teacher, teaches every day, but uses choreographed CDs for the other classes, Sevilleanas, Fandango etc, but for some reason she likes a Guitarist for the Buleria class. another point is that, I don't use amplification, which is fine for the quite bits, but when they are doing the frantic foot work, drowns out the guitar, in which case only hard rasguados seem to break through the noise.
Thanks again
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2005 8:38:05

Mark2

Posts: 1878
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

When they raise their arms above their heads, it's probably not a good time to start a falseta....a llamada or something is likely to be coming.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2005 16:17:05

Guest

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Just an advice for you: if you are really interested in Flamenco...take more classes. Once a week is not enough. I`m a Flamenco dancer and i attend classes 3 times a week .
Buleria is a very difficult "palo" (style). Maybe you should try tanguillo or sevillana or Solea first.
Try to attend an only technical class once a week in order to develope skills with your feet.

good luck !!

Gala

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2005 6:06:16

Carlos Bedoya

Posts: 20
Joined: Feb. 15 2005
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Find out what CD music the dancer was using -

If she was using bulerías with cante (not with instrumental music) this is a great opportunity to understand bulerías structure. Try to understand the difference between "marcaje" "remate" "llamada" and other terms. Ask about these terms.

As an example: In general when the singer sings the dancer will do "marcaje" movements that are beautiful but not as "busy" except in specific places to emphasize the cante. But if you don't have a singer the teacher will often choreograph to a letra (song) structure as if the singer was there. There are old school and modern ways to dance/accompany a letra. When you understand these you will have a lot of space to improvise.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 11:07:57

Guest

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Carlos Bedoya)

I think she uses the compas CD's, but I have heard a Cante CD track being played for Fandangos. I don't think the class is advanced enough to use choreography.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 11:32:11

Guest

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Just one more question. How common is it for the guitarist to use amplification in a dance class.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 12:29:23

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Dave;

The dance classes I have played at do not have amplification.

One of my dreams was to have more guitarists than dancers show up at a dance class. It took many years of waiting but one night 13 guitarists were together and only 12 dancers. I said, "We won"!

With 13 guitarists you do not need amplification! In fact we were louder than the dancers!

Some advice on accompaniment: Never use excess force to play loud! You can damage your hand permanently! I saw this occur a few years ago. The guitarist played so hard he broke strings during dance class. About an hour later he injured his hand and can no longer play guitar.

Mariano Cordoba who lives near me played accompaniment for Antonio and the Spanish Ballet. Mariano uses light tension strings and plays with a very soft flowing right hand technique. I can assure you that he can be heard by dancers!

It is interesting to note that from the late 1950’s to the early 1970’s one to three flamenco guitarists would accompany dance companies on tour. You could have a house of two thousand as an example and no amplification. The guitarists could be heard except during loud footwork. Then from sometime in the 1970’s amplification was used and not always done well. Often the guitar is too loud.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 14:12:14

Mark2

Posts: 1878
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

I wish you hadn't said "permanent" Tom. A month ago I was playing farruca for about 12 women-I'd never played it for women before, so my blood started heating up a bit and I farrucaed the crap out of my middle finger. I haven't really played since and am playing again tonight and the bugger still hurts. I always use an amp when playing classes, and I still hit really hard. The teacher I play for loves the guitar and likes me to blast. She's always asking me to turn it up. Being a former rocker, I'm happy to comply. But tonight, farruca or not, I'll be holding back so as not to make it worse.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 16:54:00

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Mark2)

Take care! I hope the finger heals. Do not over do it. Turning up the amp seems like a good idea!

I have been taught how to play loud. Part of the lesson was to relax and not to dig into the strings. You brush the strings with the fingernails and the sound will come.

For years I used extra hard tension strings for accompaniment. Last year Juan Serrano talked me out of it and suggested I try medium tension, which I did and I am going to stay with them!

I love the Farruca by the way! I tell people that is because the Farruca originated in Galicia, Spain, where the Irish lived before migrating to Ireland, and I am part Irish. In Galicia, they still use the Bag Pipe for folk music, similar to the Irish Bag Pipe.

Carmen Amaya was the first woman to dance the Farruca, as the story goes. We had a group of ladies dance the Farruca at one of our performances at the San Jose Flamenco Society. I prefer to watch films of Carmen Amaya or see a man dance the Farruca.

One story about the Farruca is that it was a dance to determine who would be the King of the Gypsies. The best dancer won.

I saw Joaquín Cortés dance a Farruca, being accompanied by Cellos. The music had the emotion of oatmeal boiled for a week. Oh well, that is just me!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2005 18:21:42

aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Here in Adelaide we all amplify when accompanying classes. In Spain it can vary - some studios have their own sound system and mike used by whatever guitarist is there at the time (such as Javier Cruz's studio when he was still around) and others don't. If you want to buy your own amp, by far the best for this purpose is an AER if you can afford it (such as the Comact 60). It's light to carry around and gives a great sound that can cut through footwork while still retaining the beauty of the acoustic guitar sound, even using a cheap mini-condensor mike. For a cheaper option, if the studio has a CD player look to see if it has a mike input, if it does connect a tie-mike to it and drop it into the sound hole of your guitar.

- Aloysius.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2005 5:49:33

Guest

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Thanks. I have found Capo'ng the guitar at the 4th fret seems to get more volume out. The hand strain is a concern, as my fore arms are totaly pumped by the end of the class. I seem to remember someone saying, that doing too much accompanieng, like all day every day, makes your fingers less nimble for solo work, is this true? An interesting tech I saw Tony Clinton use, when accompanieng dance classes, was to just use up and down strokes with the back of the fingers, and thumb, no ami. This way the only strain was on the wrist, which at full speed resembled an egg whisk. He could do this so fast, it looked and sounded like he was doing triplet rasgueados, the volume with this is very loud.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2005 8:27:40

Guest

RE: Accompanyng Baile (in reply to Guest)

Just one more question. If one was doing a Buleria using A medio and E major chords, do you ever use the D chord, or just stick to 2 chords when accompanieng dance.
I have noticed on the Solo compas CDs for Alegrias, just two chords are used. A and E for instance
Thanks
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2005 10:24:32

Mark2

Posts: 1878
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Accompanieng Baile (in reply to Guest)

I think it is true that a lot of playing for dance can inhibit your solo chops-it's such a different way of playing. You can be all warmed up to play for dance, but cold for playing solos. Solo playing requires appregio and picado, and maybe tremelo. Dance playing does not "require" these techniques although they can be used. Dance playing requires a lot of power and volume, which can tighten tendons that need to be loose for solos. All in all, it takes a balance to do both well-which is why I admire guitarists who excel in both. As far as chords, there is no limit to the chords you can use in dance accompaniment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 4 2005 16:37:45