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Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011
 

right hand arpeggio position 
hello guyse,

this is a subject that I am thinking and working on a lot. But it stays impossible.

You see, I only took a couple of flamenco guitar lessons over the last half a year from different teachers. All they were really focusing on the fact that 1: the arpegio hand position should be with very very stretched thumb
and 2: pmi fingers in 45 degrees to the strings. Both thumb and pmi fingers far away from each other
They say that I have to stretch so that it hurts. Tomatito is a good example of this position. His thumb and pmi are very far from each other.
But I also noticed that some other guitarist have the thumb near the pmi fingers when playing arpeggio (like for example jason mcguire).

For me it really stays difficult and I think that some people are anatomically not able to make this hand position all the time. But I could be wrong and/or impatient.

The three teachers I had were graduates from the Rotterdam conservatory, maybe there they focus a lot on this out there and thats why I ve been told about this a lot in the lessons (nearly the whole lesson only this )

So my questions are
1 is it true that this hand position is so much better for the sound and playability of arpeggios.

2 if this is so important (I think it is because why would all three guys put so much time of the lesson explaining it) what is the best way to achieving natural and good playability of arpeggios with this hand position.

Thanks alot!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2011 13:40:40
 
gaash

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011
 

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
I'm probably a bad person to respond to this since I never took any guitar lessons but what I have found is that in general, unless you are doing something completely crazy with your form (like say, picado with only one finger), sticking to what is comfortable for you is not a bad thing even if it is a little different from what the experts recommend. (This is why so many people recommend so many different approaches to techniques, not because one is right and one is wrong but because they are all 'right' depending on the person)

With that said, I think 45 degrees (with 90 being fingers perpendicular to the strings) seems a little bit too angled for me ... I play closer to 60 maybe? and arpeggio right hand technique for me is easily the least challenging part of flamenco guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2011 14:24:23
 
Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011
 

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
thanks gaash.

I made one mistake in my text above regarding the angle; I indeed meant 90 degrees
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2011 14:44:11
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
What appears comfortable to a beginner often is an arbitrary, spontaneous and temporary thing, without foresight to future progress and overview of other techniques and generally practical posture / planting.

Recommending such a random approach as suitable will for the most cases result in a needless odysee of futile and wasted time to the learner.

Such a recommendation must be based on fancied natural motorics of the individual, which however do not exist with the typically civilzed human.

Instead, about all of modern human´s motorics are being more or less practical habits; becoming most evident during instruction of arts of natural movement like Wing Tsun, in which you´d be surprised to realize how much of clumsy, detouring, overstrained and superfluous habit the average person displays.

Many can´t even walk economically and evenly.
A good part of patients´ chronical headaches result from exactly that and its long term effects on the spinal column / atlas / scull bearing.

Forget about just naturally suiting intuitive approach to defficile techniques like arpeggio or picado. It will only rarely result into actually ergonomic practice, whilst rather send disciples into wasteful maze.

Rmn,

Nothing should be overly strechted, as strained extensors would counter flexors. But otherwise ( = without exessive separation ) apart thumb from fingers should indeed help for fingers and thumbs individually adequate angle to the strings / planting, and lessening the thumbs muscle apparatus interfering / dimming of the fingers apparatus.

So, as long as you stay within muscular poise, the advice given to you by those teachers should be turning out helpful indeed.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2011 15:02:39
 
Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011
 

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
thanks ruphus for the anatomical analyses and advice.

any one else a view on this?

ramon
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2011 16:05:53
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
There are many religions of how to play guitar. Catch my drift?

Here is a way to get a good thumb position for _classical_. I don't know if it would work for flamenco:

1. a on 1, m on 2, p on 3, i on 4. (yes, the p is crossed over)
2. to assimilate the habit, play some melodies with the p. be sensitive to how this position feels. Your normal hand position will feel similar.

It doesn't give "Tomatito" thumb, but it does give you an advantageous degree of thumb separation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2011 5:51:18
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14880
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: right hand arpeggio position (in reply to Rmn) 
It all depends on the angle your fingers attack the strings. Some players play more straight and the thumb has to come behind. The idea of playing with curved fingers has advantages, the sound tends to be more bright with more bite, sort of clawing at the strings. The thumb has to move to the side in that case. The nails need to be filed a certain way as well. You can lump most players into two camps, although there are some that mix both postions, for example P. Cepero plays straight picados with arps done bent. Sabicas, morao moraito parrilla etc straight fingers often. N. Ricardo, PDL, Sanlucar, Tomatito, Nuñez etc, bent fingers. So the guys from Rotterdam study under P Peña who is obviously going for the N. Ricardo school.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 21:40:38
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