More On Strings

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More On Strings

There have been comments eluding to the sound and tone and timbre and "buzz" and rattle" and so on of the early (pre 60's) players..
Even though their "action" may be 3mm plus they do get the FLamenco rasp and so on..

Here is just a couple thoughts ...

Pre nylon gut strings were anything but uniform and the tensions were said to be lower than nylon..

When nylon was intruduced there were no gauges.. what you see is what you got..and to my recollection.. these nylon strings even into te 70's were generally lower tension than what is now commonly used and or preferred..the trend edging toward higher tensions

Is it not possible that the tone and technique of the "greats" was in part due to lower tension strings?

HAving come from steel string guitars I immediately went to high/hard tension
just to limit the differential steel to nylon.. but I am now wondering about
the real goals.. not just volume but tone and technique.

I currently have D'Addario hard tension on my Vega flamenca negra...
I am going to shift down to "normal" then perhaps lower tensions and see what happens

Has anyone else done this..or are you all playing with medium/normals and high/hard???

Is it possible to get more of that older sound with lower tension?

Thanks

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2005 17:45:32

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: More On Strings (in reply to Jeff H)

Its not just old school players who buzz, by any means. Check out Moraito, for instance. Beautiful player, highly sought after accompanist and his solo album Morao Y Oro is a modern classic .... buzzier than a bee with lisp

But yes, for any given action, the more you go down in tension, the more flappy the strings and the greater the buzz. The whole action/string tension thing is a trade off, really, but you definitely want to be hearing some buzz.

The string issue is individual - what works for some people won't work for others, what works on one guitar will sound awful on another, etc. I even find a trade off in terms of technique - some strings are better for my picado, others will favour my alzapua slightly more, and so on.

Just don't let your search for the right string take time from the REAL work. Remember 'Jon's law'

for good tone:

85% the player
10% the guitar
5% the strings

(or was that 4.9%..

Jon (currently using Savarez Alliance normals on the Sanchis)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2005 9:16:11

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More On Strings (in reply to Jeff H)

Jon, what about the % of eq and effects? :)

And Jeff, how woudl you evaluate the Vega guitar? Not to put C. on the spot if he's reading, but it would be nice to have a review.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2005 16:32:10

Jeff H

Posts: 39
Joined: Jan. 21 2004

RE: More On Strings (in reply to Jeff H)

Gentelmen,
Thanks for the responses...a certain amount of "buzz" is fine.. but I would not
let the quest for buzz get in the way of the quest for tone,, just as I would not conceded tone for more volume..
True it's all a trade off.. in past years I would buy Savarez Red Card without looking at something else.. even to the point of wound thirds and seconds.

Now, I am fairly new to Flamenco...though I have owned Flamenco guitars including an early 50's de la Chica and a 61 Ramirez blanca with pegs made by
Contreras...both fine guitars and sorely missed.. I actually owned these int he late 80's and was trying to learn Classical...I also owned a Sanchiz Carpio 1A
East Indian and Spruce and a genuine Velasquez (hauser style) and a Sadeo Yairi classe 800 (second from the top and better than the Velasquez or the Carpio) and some others

Recently owned a Lucida Artista Picado 777 and apparently I was the fiorst to own one,, and mine ws the preproduction unit...sold it as well.. dumb move

On to the Carlos Francisco Vega

Last year I decided to really get into flamenco and wanted a decent guitar with the specifications of American made by a skilled flamenco luthier/player. This narrowed the field to a few. Then on to the aesthetics and workmanship and so on. I also wanted a negra with pegs, engelmann top, cedar neck, ebony board,
Santos plantilla if possible.. other than that would leave it up to the maker..
Additionally under $5k and under 1 year. That narrowed the field further..

I had known Vega from a couple discussion groups and it dawned on me that he could be the guy.. So I proposed the project to him with no other specifications
and would leave all the internal details and cosmetics totally up to him..I esentially told him that he could build what he would like
We struck a deal. He kept me informed along the way.. I NEVER called Vega
just my way and I didnt need to...

He completed the guitar several weeks early and I paid him. Done deal...
The guitar arrives in perfect condition woith and arched top TKL case..
Here is a description.

655 mm scale 54 mm nut 2 3/8ths spacing (sorry inches) at the saddle
1940 Santos Hernandez Plantilla with 51 Barbero bracing. 2mm plus saddle height and 3.7 mm at the 12th fret bass side ( my specs)
Strings slightly offset (as does de voe ) to favor space for the treble strings to prevent pull off. 19 full frets and a 20th extension.

East Indian backs and sides of the old straightgrained reddish variety. This came from Vegas 12 year old stash and he cherry picked the best. Like wise the absolutley AAAA Engelmann top.. flawless and silked with a very fine grain..
cedro neck with rosewood and holly/maple veneers under a Brazilian rosewwod
face plate of splashy grain...Top of the line quais Hill Patterened pegs with black collars and 2 1/2 mm black end balls polished to the 9's. Dead black fingerboard also polished with nary a sanding scratch, 6mm thick at most with some relief and tapered off to the bass side along its full length with a pronounced drop off fro 10 on. Flawless fret work, and polished. Perfectly made fitted and polished nut.

The rosette is the exact same roses rosette as used by De Voe...the bridge is
dark straight grained Brazilian with a bone saddle and a thin genuine ivory slab
on top of the string block over a thin veneer of maple. Tradtional 6 hole bridge.
About 7.5 mm in front

The top pufling is 1mm black then white then black then white then ebony bindings..the back is maple then ebony,,,this continues down the center of the backs and is repeated on the sides which comes down to the butt and is all perfectly mitred. the heel cap is ebony and underlay is maple to match the side bindings. Subtle and classy

The heel is long and pointed and the peak of the heel extends a bit into the neck,,, very tasty, the head is about 19-20 mm to accomodate the pegs, the back of the head under and back of the nut is carved in a beautiful and perfect semi circle. the sides of the head are near parallel terminating in Vegas own
crown...btw the pegs have 5mm blue green abalone dots..fantastico.

The inside of the guitar is as flawless as the outside .. vega cuts his own kerfed cedar linings top and back.. the foot is nicely carved and sanded very finely...not a tool mark or a glue drop anywhere...

The label is a classic...complete with date signature and an oval stamp over top right edge,, half on the label, half on the wood..just classy

The instrument is hand varnished as is done by some of the best makers including velasquez... all done with badger brushes and hand polished.. the top finish is as thin as a french polish but considerably more durable... you can see and feel the grain through the top wood.. the backs and sides have additional coats. The sheen is not gloss nor matte, but somewhere in between..striking.

The guitar is very very light owing to the thinner than usual backs , sides and top. Feather light.. a real joy to hold. Nicely balanced with the pegs (which work so easily.. would not have a flamenco without them) The neck is slightly flat on the back with a slight taper from the 1st to 12th though not perceptible in feel..

An extremely lyrical guitar that can be played hard or soft, plently of volume with modest sustain, not too much, not too little. Currenltly strung with the D'Addario hard tension which will be coming off shortly.. Vega originally strings up with mediums, we are just playing aropund with strings at this point.

If you want the flamenco rasp and growl and so on it is there... if you want a
more lush sound.. play toward the sound hole..

My original purpose of this guitar was the "universal" unit.. As I am also messing about with Brazilain and aspire to play some of the Lenny Breau nylon material this was it. And it is "IT". Very finely made guitar. I am fortunate to own it.

The Price wa $4600 including case, shipping was additional. And this is totally handmade by the maker ( no apprentices) with premium materials and workmanship and built beyond all expectations, and on time.
Before Vega gets well known ( he has actually avoided this up to now as he was otherwise employed as a prototype and specialist machinist for a major research uniiversity) I would recommend considering him. This is a great guitar from a 30 year experienced builder with a considerable amount of repair and building experience, well travelled to Spain and has the "inside" track to makers there. Carlos Vega is an extremely modest guy who's also a frequent contributing writer to Acoustic Guitar magazine and generous contributor to various guitar related discussion groups. ( And he is a professional tuba player... no joke)

No left brain voodoo or hype.. just the goods.. I am very happy with my choice.

Jeff H

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2005 19:26:31