Falsetas modern vs traditional

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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

Falsetas modern vs traditional

hi there guys, I was listening to a cd that I made with Rafael Cortes and Rafael Riquini(spelling).
Once the Rafael Cortes music ended and the Riqueni's music comes along, there was a very very clear distinction that Cortes was more modern sounding and Riqueni is more traditional sounding.

Then I thought what makes a falseta modern or traditional?
Is it the way it is played, accented, phrased? Or is it how the notes resolve within the chord? Or is it using non traditional way of voicing a chord? Or is it in the way the guitarist strum the compas rhythm to bring a different feel to it?

I have absolutely no idea of music theory, so I am wondering what you guys think.
I'm not talking about music of Cortes vs Requeni but rather what makes modern flamenco sounds modern and what makes traditional falsetas sounds traditional.

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2010 22:09:23

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to HolyEvil)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2010 0:57:45

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1894
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to HolyEvil)

i don't know Rafael Cortés' music unfortunately, but i regard Riqueni as a very modern player...his tone is very traditional sounding, but his hands, especially his left hand is very modern, sometimes jazzy and innovative...

i'm not qualified to answer your question, but i let my ears decide...i think the modern players look for ways to expand the tradition, to almost break the rules...this could be done by playing around with the rhythm, playing unusual chords, being very technical...most players nowadays are very advanced technically and their playing is incredibly clean...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2010 3:06:49

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 28 2011 23:22:48

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2010 20:32:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to HolyEvil)

Depends which Riqueni album u heard...his compositions are usually quite "modern" and very sophisticated...hes was very ahead of his time...on his boom days...but if u compare an album that Riqueny put out 20 years ago with one Cortes put out 3 years ago then it might seem that way...

quote:

Then I thought what makes a falseta modern or traditional?
Is it the way it is played, accented, phrased? Or is it how the notes resolve within the chord? Or is it using non traditional way of voicing a chord? Or is it in the way the guitarist strum the compas rhythm to bring a different feel to it?

all of the above...but for me the 2 key differences betwen a more traditional falseta and a more "modern " one is the way its fitted over compas and the litlle more colorfull voicings used...

then again u take the most traditional falseta and get someone like Tomatito or Antonio Rey to play it and they can make the falseta sound very "modern" playing exactly the same notes ...simply through different phrasing and accenting and use of compas...so ultimately i think most obvious difference between trad and "modern" is the use of compas imo...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2010 21:22:30

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to Florian)

Riqueni recorded an album called "maestros"which is all old stuff from sabicas and nino ricardo etc., so it might have been that. everything else he's recorded still sounds modern to me....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2010 2:52:33

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to HolyEvil)

thanks for the replies guys...
but I'm actually not talking about Cortes vs Riqueni..
Let's just say guitarist A and guitarist B.. and ignore my naming of the guitarists.

this is actually my question for discussion
"Then I thought what makes a falseta modern or traditional?
Is it the way it is played, accented, phrased? Or is it how the notes resolve within the chord? Or is it using non traditional way of voicing a chord? Or is it in the way the guitarist strum the compas rhythm to bring a different feel to it? "

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2010 3:36:27

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Falsetas modern vs traditional (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

thanks for the replies guys...
but I'm actually not talking about Cortes vs Riqueni..
Let's just say guitarist A and guitarist B.. and ignore my naming of the guitarists.

this is actually my question for discussion
"Then I thought what makes a falseta modern or traditional?
Is it the way it is played, accented, phrased? Or is it how the notes resolve within the chord? Or is it using non traditional way of voicing a chord? Or is it in the way the guitarist strum the compas rhythm to bring a different feel to it? "

To generalize, something that won't really help you understand, I would say you have differentiate between creativity and interpretation. By creativity I mean something totally new and unique, vs interpretation which could be either note for note as recorded or a spin off or new approach to an old idea.

In terms of creativity it is pretty easy to see what makes something modern or traditional, just look at the date it was recorded. Probably mid to late 70's would be modern creations, but depends on your tastes.

Interpretation is a much more complex subject regarding what makes something modern vs trad. Could be only rhythmic things, could be dynamic, could be voicing or chord usage, etc etc. In this case you really do need specific examples to understand, to be sure the original idea is not simply a new take on say Ramon Montoya. (see the recent thread "too good to miss"). The pet peeve of mine is to lump things into the concept of "lots of technique=modern" or "modern flamenco is jazzy" or "jazzfusionflamenco is modern" etc etc. That is usually not true except in a few cases.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2010 5:57:32