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How is a top quality (1F) wood different than 2F or 3F wood?
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Armando
Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland
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 RE: How is a top quality (1F) wood d... (in reply to Güiro)
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Hi Güiro
I basically agree with the statements of John and Anders, but i would like to add my own experience to it.
As a luthier we must be careful not to fall into marketing traps. I don't led me be too much impressed by AAAAAAAAAAA++++++++ gradings and however they call their stuff. First of all it is the acoustic quality of a soundboard that counts before anything else. As a luthier we want to build a musical instrument and not a furniture. However we cannot ignore the visual quality of a soundboard as it would be rejected by most customers if doesn't look neat.
I remember the Romanillos course 2006 in Sigüenza. Everybody has to bring two soundboards to the course which were then checked by José himself. There was a french luthier next to my workbench and he was still rather inexperienced. Before José passed from one workbench to the next, he showed me his soundboards and he asked me to give a feedback on it's quality. When i taped and flexed the two soundboards i've immediatly realized which one was better and i told him which one i prefere. He got sad or almost somewhat angry because the worse soundboard was an AAA grade soundboard for which he paid about triple the price of the other. He just didn't expected that answer, but José confirmed my statement when he checked the soundboards as well.
When i started guitarmaking i have purchased some spruce tops via internet. As a result they sent me any tops according to the grading that i have ordered. I realized that there was a huge difference between one top and another in terms of weight and tonal response. I was not really happy with some of the tops that i have received, so i desided not to purchase soundbaord material by the internet any longer. From that time on i took the extra effort to travel to the point of sale and select my favourite soundboards directly out of the stock. I've got now sprucetops from three different origins.
1. Swiss Alpine spruce from eastern Switzerland, Split
2. Swiss pré Alpine Spruce from western Switzerland, Split
3. Italian Alpine spruce from the Fiemme Valley (Stradivari Forest) Quartersawn
When i purchase soundboard material i always request the best quality as i don't want to save on the most important part of the guitar, but while selecting the woods i've realized that mastergrade is not always better than AAA grade. Sometimes AAA grade is even better. I have found that there is a significant difference between soundboards sawn out of splitted billets and the regular quartersawn stuff. The splitted soundboards are deffinitely superior in terms of stiffness, tonal response and appearance.
Most of my tonewood is still rather young so i have to wait a couple more years before i can start using it. From time to time i go through the stock and tap the soundboards and they seem to improve everytime i tap them.
I know, tonewood can be a subject to endless discussions as different luthiers have different opinions on that. I still believe that wood is not the most important factor in guitar construction allthough i don't like to work with poor quality materials either.
regards
Armando
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Date Jun. 11 2009 4:53:34
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Armando
Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland
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RE: How is a top quality (1F) wood d... (in reply to Güiro)
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quote:
I have to use the internet to buy wood and its a hit and miss experience. Generally I want wood with a straight vertical grain, as closely quartered as possible and to get this you have to pay more, of course.
Krichards
I agree that Well quartered wood is very important. The term "quartersawn" allows deviation of up to 20% from the ideal cut which is called radial cut. I have made the experience that a relatively slight deviation of 5% already means a significant loss in stiffness in the soundboard. This was also confirmed by José Romanillos on his guitarmaking course.
The owner of the swiss tonewood supplier mentioned above invited me to coffee and cake when i visited his sawmill. During the coffee break i was able to talk to him for a while an he told me that those tops with super thight and absolutely straight grain are most requested by american luthiers or tonewood suppliers. They request mayor quantities which exceeds the availlability by far. Therefore he has to limit the supply on mastergrade spruce for each order to a relatively small number. I can get only five mastergrade tops from him every year.
I think that the very fine and straight grained spruce (so called mastergrade) became that expencive not mainly for it's tonal quality but rather for its demand. Maybe i'm wrong but i think that many luthiers just request what their customers ask for and many customers do not really have an idea about tonewood. I really don't want to offend anyone here but in my opinion laymans tend to simplify things.
In the case of tonewood spruce the following conclusion is just not accurate:
"The tighter and straighter the grane the better the soundboard"
but that is what many guitarists believe and that's what they look for on a guitar. However i think that the luthier can often clarify things when talking to customers.
Being somewhat invidious, i could say: "good for me", so i have to pay less for the tops that i choose 
quote:
If you dont belive in the strength of the moon, go to some places with a heavy tide. It can be 7 meters.
Besides working with the moon cycles is something that has been done for thousands of years with succes. Its only recently, where we think that everything has to be analyzed using some kind of man made machine in order to be accepted, and that everything which has been done with succes for thousands of years is being treated as hollistic babble.
Anders
This is correct.
Moonwood is not just a cheap marketing ploy and nothing else than smoke and mirrors. Allthough no extensive research has been done on moonwood, there is a recent study done by a swiss university.
The conclusion of the study was as follows:
The amalgam of the data material (with the aim of forming overall trends for the alpine regions of Switzerland) and the use of specific, statistic-based analysis allow for a determination of significant (statistically relevant)lunar oriented components in the variability of moisture loss, shrinkage and relative weight.
It was determined that the division waxing (from new moon to full moon) and waning (from full moon to new moon) points to significant, across-the-board differences in shrinkage, but final results are still outstanding. The data analysis permits two precise, systematic, lunar orientated divisions that apply much more precisely to all three criteria.
The variation spectrum was not, however, totally attributed to the position of the moon. The inclusion of the reference weight (taken before felling)of each individual tree, independent of time, shows that this factor plays a superordinate role, but confirms the significance of the lunar models tested.
regards
Armando
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Date Jun. 12 2009 10:01:45
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