Greetings & Seeking advice on a new guitar.

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trudgiano

Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 9 2010

Greetings & Seeking advice on a new ...

Hello members of the forum. I'm new here, so thought it wise to introduce myself.

I'm very much a beginner to learning flamenco guitar, I've been taking lessons from a classical guitar teacher here in Cornwall, UK who also does a bit of work accompanying a flamenco dancer. I used to play the piano in my childhood, so I'm finding the irregular rythms in the compas of some styles to be slightly difficult to grasp. The compas metronome found on this forum should help me with that problem though.

I stumbled across this forum when searching the web for advice on what guitar to buy. Having spent the last 6 months learning on a cheap Admira classical guitar, I've got to the stage where I know this isn't just a fad and I'm ready to get my first flamenco guitar. From browsing these forums the Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 2F seems to come highly recommended, so I'm off to try one out next week. However, I'd quite like to try out a few guitars before shelling out a big wad of cash, so if anyone is able to offer any other recommendations for sub £1000 guitars that would be suitable for an enthusiastic beginner I would be most grateful for your input.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 4:26:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

Sanchis are good. Hermanos Sanchis Lopez, many models maybe in your price range. Used will be cheaper. Also this new mexican maker Castillo makes fantastic guitars but maybe his prices are going up now. And of course you should go for manuel reyes from cordoba if you are willing to spend a little more.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 6:11:30

trudgiano

Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 9 2010

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

Thanks for the advice, will definitely keep an eye out for any decent second hand deals. If the Castillo you are referring to is Salvador Castillo, his guitars are sadly a bit out of my price range. They do look quite lovely though. The head design is rather unusual, but very attractive.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 8:20:47

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

yes salvador castillo. The first one I played they said they paid $1800 for it and it blew my mind for that price. Now they have gone way up I see.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 9:35:42

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

I second Ricardos suggestion and what coincidence i am selling my Sanchis Carpio 2F (father of Sanchis Lopez). A good guitar with a proper setup, but i didnt took it out of the case more than 2 times since i have a new guitar...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 9:45:29

trudgiano

Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 9 2010

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

Deniz, if you're selling a Sanchis Carpio, I might well be interested. Do you have any more information, pics or recordings of the guitar?

I'm visiting a dealer tomorrow to try out a Sanchis Lopez 2F-05 and a few other guitars. Don't know if I'll buy anything, would prefer to see if I can make my money go further by getting a used guitar, but it should be helpful trying a few out for size.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 10:53:40

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

I'd have a Sanchis Negra left

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 12:49:34

orsonw

Posts: 1938
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to bursche)

Valeriano Bernal makes good guitars for that price. Contact Ramon Ruiz here -
http://www.fiestaflamenca.com/bernal_guitars.htm

For Sanchis try Johannes at mundo flamenco
http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/homepage

Also Johannes own Spanish made "Mundo Flamenco 2F" model is very impressive for the money only €690.

Both Ramon and Johannes are players so only pick out good guitars to sell. In my experience they are both to be trusted. Sometimes as a beginner it's hard to know what to look for in guitar, they can help.

I don't know where you're going to try out guitars but in my opinion there aren't really any good flamenco guitars in any stores in London but be careful there are a few not good ones!

Don't buy a guitar without trying it, for example two Sanchis 2Fs will not be exactly the same, one may be better than another.
Be aware it's possible to buy a bad guitar at any price including very expensive ones. There are lots of bad guitars around costing £1000.

Second hand is a good option. I recently bought a second hand but basically unused Sanchis worth nearly £3000 but I paid only £1300. Its a great guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 14:36:07

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

Valeriano Bernal makes good guitars for that price. Contact Ramon Ruiz

Good guitarist, good teacher and a good guitar (go for a cheap Bernal, I think it is the Amigo) - even Anders likes mine and it cost around £400. Ramon used to get them from Jingle, I believe.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 14:56:40

tantrum

Posts: 31
Joined: Nov. 4 2009
From: Switzerland

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

For Sanchis try Johannes at mundo flamenco
http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/homepage

Also Johannes own Spanish made "Mundo Flamenco 2F" model is very impressive for the money only €690.

Both Ramon and Johannes are players so only pick out good guitars to sell. In my experience they are both to be trusted. Sometimes as a beginner it's hard to know what to look for in guitar, they can help.

I bought a Mundo Flamenco 2F from Johannes just last month. I am a complete Flamenco beginner and hadn't played an acoustic guitar for almost 25 years. I was surprised by how good it sounds actually, but I have don't have much to compare it to.

The Mundo Flamenco house guitars are made by Camps. He has a 1F for 550 EUR and the 2F for 690 EUR. The latter sounded about 3-4 times better in my opinion. He also played a 1500 EUR model that sounded better than the 2F (of course I suppose), but not so much better. (Edit: I actually had my first lesson yesterday and my teacher was happy with the guitar I'd brought along.

)

I tried two of the 2Fs and one sounded quite natural and the other one good, but maybe too artificial somehow, not sure how to describe it. I picked the former, but can also suggest trying out multiples of the same version, if you can.

Johannes is away in Spain until late January, but he speaks good English and can help.

By the way, I don't live in Germany, so I didn't pay the 19% VAT, which brought the cost down from 690 EUR quite a lot. I paid about 7% to the Swiss customs people. Not sure how it'd work for a UK resident.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2010 23:41:33

michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to tantrum)

hi everybody
i bought the Hnos Sanchis-Lopez 1-F Arce one year ago at mundo flamenco, and i'm still very happy with it, the sound gets better and better the more i play it.
Hnos Sanchis-Lopez are good average-taste flamenco guitar that fits well if don't have so much special expectations or special preferences.
BTW johannes is a good player, i also recommend his workshops for those living in the south germany area.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 2:26:15

trudgiano

Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 9 2010

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

Thanks for all the advice guys. Very much appreciated. I just got back from the dealer where I tried out a Sanchis Lopez 2F-05, Manuel Rodriguez FF, Esteve 9F and Alhambra 10F.

Played the Sanchis Lopez first, it was very nice, but not as clear as I had expected, I put this down to poor playing technique on my part. But then I tried the Manuel Rodriguez FF which sounded and felt wonderful when played. Everything sounded so clear and crisp. I couldn't get the chap to knock more than £50 off his asking price so I left without buying it, but I'm sorely tempted to go back and snap it up.

After playing that one, the Esteve and Alhambra guitars felt like playing a tambourine. Even the Sanchis Lopez felt a bit tame when trying it again.

I haven't tried any other flamenco guitars yet, so I don't know if I should go with my gut and buy it or wait a bit and try some more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 5:43:39

flybynight

Posts: 121
Joined: Aug. 14 2009

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

There's a golden rule for buying guitars.. whatever you buy, six months later you'll be aching for a guitar that has the opposite characteristics of what you have just bought.

You might want clear and crispy now, but you'll soon want warm, mellow and sweet.

So I wouldn't agonise too much.. just save your money for when you get buyer's remorse, then you buy the opposite, and have guitars that cover all angles

Along with Escribano and orsonw, I would suggest going to see Ramon Ruiz (west london) and check out what he has, before making a final decision.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 6:09:37

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

also this crisp issue, could be because of new strings...nearly all guitars (also junk ones) with brand new strings sound crisp , etc. , i have a $150 old chinese classical guitar here, and the first 2 days after puting on new strings -> killer sound, muy flamenco lol

so when comparing guitars, also pay attention to this point (not that one guitar hast 8 months old strings on it, and the other one with new bass strings put on 2 days ago),,,, pay also much more attention to playability, setup, etc. .... and not only your first impression of sound.

because your way of playing can change during the next months, you have more power and different way of playing and then you might be able to play that "bad sanchis" in a different way and see how good it might be .... i am not saying that the one you played must be good or something, but you should consider all these points....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 8:04:21

trudgiano

Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 9 2010

RE: Greetings & Seeking advice on a ... (in reply to trudgiano)

After some deliberation I went and bought the Manuel Rodriguez FF that I liked. A trip to London to try out some more guitars, as suggested by Escribano and flybynight, probably would have been wise, but it's a pretty long journey for me and I was quite enamoured with the guitar I ended up buying.

Having escaped the problem of overly sonorous basses I had with my cheap classical guitar, I'm enjoying my practice even more and stuggle to put the guitar down. I joined the forum a bit late to have a stab at the current beginner's challenge, but hopefully I'll have a go at the next one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2010 3:06:35