hardwood curiosities

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jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

hardwood curiosities

This might be of interest to some of the budding luthiers on the list. Here's a picture of some freshly sawn Cocobolo. In a few days this will be a nice chocolate brown all it needs is exposure to indirect sunlight. The problem with this is if you sand the wood these ugly pink and yellow colors will reappear. The solution is to work the wood immediately to dimension and glue up the back. Once the guitar is built and finish sanded you have to wait for it to turn dark again before applying any finish. This plank of wood is extremely well cured by the way. It has been air dried for well over 30 years.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 13:53:35

M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

Well, those brown/yellow spots don't look any good, but I now, cocobolo wood is beautiful when the work is completed. I have myself a guitar with cocobolo wood used on fingerboard and have to say, that it is one of the nicest looking fingerboard woods. Anyway, I didn't know it acts this way, when sanded. I am being attracted to this whole handcrafting more and more and believe, once I will start building guitars too. This direct connection with woods and understanding their qualities is so amazing thing!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 16:18:49

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

what do you plan to use these pieces for? i bet it would look really cool and intense if used as back and side.

cocobolo is a rosewood, right? how would you compare it to other similar woods? especially when used as a fingerboard or bridge?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 18:01:32

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

Hi John.

Good advices there.
How are your feelings about flatsawn wood for backs and sides. I mean this is a totally flatsawn piece.

I´ve been trying to avoid flatsawn wood untill now because its a lot softer across the grain and because the wood wants to bend and when the back has been joined, the two parts will try to bend different ways.

The problem nowadays is that its VERY difficult to get quartersawn wood except indian rosewood. Even Pau Ferro is normally flatsawn now.

Are we loosing something? Old master guitars very rarely are built with flatsawn wood.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2009 23:39:28

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

nice piece of wood there. sanding cocobolo is a pain because it clogs the paper very quickly. very oily.

I doubt you could find an entire piece of quarter sawn cocobolo. Then density of the wood will keep the strength. the only trouble is warping. the bracing will prevent that though. It's the same with brazillian rose wood.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2009 0:37:05

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

How are your feelings about flatsawn wood for backs and sides. I mean this is a totally flatsawn piece.

I´ve been trying to avoid flatsawn wood untill now because its a lot softer across the grain and because the wood wants to bend and when the back has been joined, the two parts will try to bend different ways.

I'm with you regarding use of flatsawn wood Anders. I wouldn't use this wood on a traditional guitar. I'll get about 16 backs out of this particular plank when it's completely sawn which will be used exclusively for the interior backs on the double body guitars. Because the wood is so well cured I'm not worried about checking or warping and it has a good resonant tap tone. As you can see in the picture it's lying perfectly flat on the bench and it was just sawn. I'm sure you know this wouldn't happen if it were't very well cured. Cocobolo is unsuitable for anything other than a classic in my opinion due to it's weight. Here's a picture of what the plank looks like before sawing. It's about 10 inches wide.

This piece of wood was given to me by an old friend and master woodworker who was dying of lung disease. It was one of several pieces he gave me including some other rosewoods, ebony, kamagong and ivory tusk. I know how old it is because I was with him when he bought it.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2009 6:17:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

John

Thanks for the reply. Its good to be confirmed

I guess that I had started thinking that it was ok to use flatsawn since its what is for sale and since so many builders use flatsawn wood.
I have used wood where the center of the back was quatersawn for some 12 - 15cm and the grain was the slowly "tilting" towards the sides. That was ok, but to use a completely flatsawn piece with the flatsawn figure in the midle of each part of the back... I looks wrong in my eyes and feels wrong in my hands.

It has a nice color that cocobolo piece.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2009 9:11:59

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
That was ok, but to use a completely flatsawn piece with the flatsawn figure in the midle of each part of the back... I looks wrong in my eyes and feels wrong in my hands.

I think this piece of wood could be used for a traditional guitar but you'd have to leave the light colored wood in. Unlike most sapwood this is very hard just like the dark wood so it would probably work fine. Since the piece is pretty wide (10" or 25.5 cm) the back would be more like what you described (vertical in the center..tilting at the edges) but I don't know how a customer would react to a guitar with that much figure since to look right the sides would also have to have the light colored stripe. I'll probably saw out one set of sides and back with the light wood left in and make up my mind later. It brings to mind that series of Rodriguez guitars made out of church doors with the wide white stripe down the center of the back...very striking but not my idea of pretty.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2009 11:21:19

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: hardwood curiosities (in reply to jshelton5040)

Well, what is pretty or not is something very personal.

I personally like a sapwood center if the wood is hard and healthy and I dont need a white line in order to find it pretty and I would build with the wood if it fits well into your plantilla.
I was lucky with this piece of Madagascar. It is tilting towards the edges but not to much and the effect is very dramatic. I have another piece of Madagascar hanging which is flatsawn but it has such extreme figuring that i think I will use it. I joined it 3 years ago and took it down to 3mm and left it to hang in my workshop. In the start it was very unstable and changed a lot with humidity changes. Now its stable and doesnt change much so I think I can work with it.