The importance of paper in a fine guitar

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Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

The importance of paper in a fine guitar

I knew an old fella in Glasgow who collected some fine guitars in his time and did a bit of buying and selling. He was a classical player but from time to time he would tempt me by producing Gerundinos.
Anyway, he decided to sell a Fleta and the buyer was travelling up to see the guitar. He thought the internals were a bit dusty so he removed the strings and put the hoover nozle into the sound hole. All seemed to be well and the inside was gleaming but then he noticed the label had dissapeared.
The buyer came, played it, seemed impressed, saw the lable was missing and left. He was angry having travelled up to Glasgow 'for no reason' and he wouldn't touch it.

What do you think of that?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 5:07:51

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 13:30:26

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 5:14:17

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

What do you think of that?

Cleaning is a higly overrated thing.

I hope for friend that Fleta signed the guitar, besides on the label, because, if not..... its just a good guitar

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 5:15:09

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

My first blanca had just the name of a guitar shop in germany on the label. No builder, no factory. It said that this would be custom made guitar by a builder in spain. I bought the guitar because i was 100% convinced of the sound. It was "just" 500 Euros, so i could sell it easily to someone who was really looking after a flamenco guitar. I would have never sold it, if i hadnt serious problems in playing the guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 5:32:42

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer

All seemed to be well and the inside was gleaming but then he noticed the label had dissapeared.

What do you think of that?

Why didn't he just retrieve the label from the vacuum and put it back in?

A few years ago a guitar collector brought an Ignacio Fleta to our shop for some repairs. The owner was not pleased when I informed him it was a fake. The craftsmanship was simply awful, I couldn't believe anyone would be fooled by the phoney label. On top of that it sounded terrible and had a warped neck.

By the way, never put a vacuum in the sound hole. If it somehow gets sealed just for an instant (like with your hand) it can cause the top to implode. I've seen this happen once.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 6:53:35

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

That is sad, but honestly, the buyer did what any of us or any other reasonable potential buyer would've done. Did this guy ever find the label?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 6:55:49

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to kovachian)

I liked that shop that Aro (Kate's husband) went to in Vietnam where after choosing the guitar you liked and agreeing a price, you could then choose from a selection of labels for one to stick on.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 7:19:18

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

Did this guy ever find the label?

I don't know, never thought to ask him.
It was about 15 years ago and he was just one of those guys who always found great guitars in the strangest places, some old lady's attic or at the local market, and he used to tinker with them to try to make them better.
I guess a Fleta must have been about £10K back then and with the label missing or pasted back in, who knows.
He had one Fleta where he cut through the soundboard so the bone could sit down straight onto the struts (I posted on this some time ago). He then wrote to Fleta suggesting the improvement.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 10:27:19

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

never put a vacuum in the sound hole. If it somehow gets sealed just for an instant (like with your hand) it can cause the top to implode.

Good advice John, I don't know if he found the label although I'm sure he would have had a good rummage.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 10:29:15

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to val)

quote:

Was it worth heaps?

I'd guess around £10K back then but I don't really know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 10:30:59

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

He had one Fleta where he cut through the soundboard so the bone could sit down straight onto the struts (I posted on this some time ago). He then wrote to Fleta suggesting the improvement.

That's just brilliant Jim!

In my head I thought of this kind of thing (sent in 1950)...

"Dear Pablo Picasso,

I have long been an admirer of your work and was fortunate enough to successfully bid for your painting "Guernica" at a recent auction.

However, having had the time to inspect it over several months, there are a few bits and pieces which I think could be improved upon.

Being a bit of an Amateur painter myself, I have taken the liberty of modifying your original canvas to show these improvements.

I am enclosing some photographs of the now finished work and eagerly await your comments."

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 12:21:27

aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

thats funny Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 12:40:18

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Well, I think a better analogy would've been someone trying to make an improvement to the canvas or paint as opposed to the painting itself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 13:24:13

Trev

Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 25 2005

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

""Dear Pablo Picasso, "

Urban legend or true?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2009 13:26:09

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

"Dear Pablo Picasso,

Brilliant... Ha!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2009 5:44:23

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

By the way, never put a vacuum in the sound hole. If it somehow gets sealed just for an instant (like with your hand) it can cause the top to implode. I've seen this happen once.

Good safety tip, I didnt know that could happen.
How do you get dust and dirt,cobwebs etc out of an old guitar then. Should it be blown out rather than vacuumed?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2009 7:11:21

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

shame about the label surely rummaging through the dust back would have been worth the hassel!

Pimientito - a good way without using a hoover would be to get a tack cloth. some are sticky and some are not. when dust touches them it sticks to it. It's quite hard getting your arm in there. I use them for cleaning all the dust off a guitar before polishing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2009 7:25:28

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

shame about the label surely rummaging through the dust back would have been worth the hassel!

He might well have done that but I guess the guitar then looks like someone has removed the label and stuck one on to make it look like something it is not.
I would be suspicious if I noticed a label had been tampered with.

He left us a few years back and I guess the guitar is still out there somewhere. So if you come accross a Fleta with perhaps a stuck on label, don't worry it could be original.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2009 9:42:00

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: The importance of paper in a fin... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

i think the easiest way to clean it out is to put some dry rice in it, inflate a baloon in the soundhole and shake it up

so im told

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2009 15:19:44