new to flamenco - trying to make a melody

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davedave

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 17 2009

new to flamenco - trying to make a m...

Hello there. I am new to flamenco and am trying to make a rhythm to the backing of these chords: Fmaj7, Gm, C7, Fmaj7. In 4/4 time and this pattern of four chords will be repeated.

Could someone please give me suggestions on how to go about making a melody for this in flamenco style? I particularly need information on RHYTHMS.

Thanks very much for any help.

David

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 5:37:25

Stu

Posts: 2549
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Hi Dave, welcome to the foro.

I'm a little unclear on what you are trying to do.

Are you composing something from scratch and want help with melodies?

If so I would simply suggest that only you can make/decide the melody, maybe you have an idea of the melody already?

or are you interested in learning about flamenco rhythms and melodies? because then that's a very different matter.

quote:

Fmaj7, Gm, C7, Fmaj7. In 4/4 time and this pattern of four chords will be repeated.

This is not a flamenco chord progression I am familiar with, perhaps maybe for rumba flamenca but nothing else really (or maybe I'm wrong) Flamenco follows a set of rules and if you want to learn about them there are plenty here who can help.

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 6:43:36

davedave

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 17 2009

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Hi Stu, thanks for the reply.

I have been given these four chords and told to make a melody with a flamenco-style rhythm. I think it is meant to be rumba style.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 6:59:50

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Even for Rumba or Nuevo stuff, this pattern is unusal and doesnt sound Flamenco (or even spanish)..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 7:09:26

davedave

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 17 2009

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Oh dear. Nevertheless, is there anywhere I can learn about melody rhythms on flamenco-style guitar?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 7:19:36

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Turn Fmaj7 to F7, get an A or a Dminor in there and you should get something more flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 7:52:58

Stu

Posts: 2549
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

quote:

I have been given these four chords and told to make a melody with a flamenco-style rhythm.

By whom? a guitarist?
If your friend wants something that truly sounds flamenco then I'd listen to what John O. has to say and change that chord progression (perhaps he'll elaborate)...and perhaps the person who asked you will be pleasantly surprised by a more authentic sound.

However, if that chord sequence must be adhered to then it will be hard for anyone of us to give you advice. apart from maybe a strumming pattern to follow.

Stu

Ps. where are you from dave??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 8:53:18

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Are you sure its Fmaj and not Bbmaj? Cause Gm and C7 fit into A phrygian...
If you want rythm go to YouTube and search Rumba strumming! If you want a melody maybe you need inspiration..Gipsy Kings for example? I dont know what kind of music you want to play, or what you were asked to play, or what is the plan of your group/friends.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 9:01:59

davedave

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 17 2009

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Wow thanks for all the feedback! It is much appreciated. I am from Great Britain - probably why I know so little about flamenco but I hope I can learn a lot from this forum.

Edit: Are there any books you can recommend to teach me the theory of flamenco?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 12:36:27

Ricardo

Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

What flamenco do you listen to? Of have heard that you like?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 12:38:52

davedave

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 17 2009

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

I have listened to a few famous flamenco guitarists: Paco de Lucia, Juan Martin, Armik and Eduardo Niebla. I particularly like pieces by Lucia. My favourite styles so far, though my knowledge is limited, are fandangos and rumbas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 12:59:37

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davedave

I have listened to a few famous flamenco guitarists: Paco de Lucia, Juan Martin, Armik and Eduardo Niebla. I particularly like pieces by Lucia.

Veeery good choice amigo!

Nevermind, just an insider joke

You are definitely right here and on the right track

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 13:19:02

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Hey Dave.
I'm from England too and you are listening to exactly the same stuff as i was when I first started getting into Flamenco.
Paco de lucia is a genius but his stuff is practically impossible to copy (although the earlier stuff makes great exercises) Eduardo Niebla is a great guitarist (and a really nice guy) but he plays more Jazz with flamenco technique than what we would call flamenco. Armik plays compositions that have a latin feel and is a good guitarist, but this is not really flamenco music.

You are at a point where you have to think about whether you want to play music that is influenced by flamenco.....or flamenco!

You should go to Amazon and check out "Tauromagia" by Manolo Sanlucar which is a definitive guitar album. Also check out "Tomatito" who has done some great albums. You should listen to some singing too. Start with "Camaron de la isla" and "Estrella morente" . In guitar check out Moraito, Paco Cepero, Vicente Amigo, Sabicas, Niño Ricardo, Niño Miguel and Gerardo Nuñez.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 13:27:39

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

You are at a point where you have to think about whether you want to play music that is influenced by flamenco.....or flamenco!

....and you also have to think about the desicion whether to play music which most people like to hear or only a few (including yourself)

I mean most people "out there" like ARMIK but most of us here dont.
And most people out there cant do anything with some unknown guitarists which we here love to hear.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 14:39:11

Stu

Posts: 2549
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Hey dave this is good advice from these guys.

So I'm from England too, and this forum has been great help and source of info/music/advice etc.
I actually know a friend of a friend who gets called "dave dave" for some reason,... maybe its you?

As for flamenco theory, I'm not too sure....

but as a beginner maybe check tuition books by Juan Martin/graf martinez or better manuel granados to name a few.

or maybe check out

http://www.flamenco-teacher.com/

http://www.flamenco-lessons.com/flamenco-guitar-teacher.asp

both run by members here

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 17:23:21

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

David,

Welcome aboard, to the Foro and to the flamenco bandwagon.

All good advice from the others, and I’ll add a suggestion for an excellent beginner’s resource- a book called Song of the Outcasts by Robin Totton:

Song of the Outcasts

...which seems to be out of print on your side of the pond. Totton’s an Englishman, so I figured it would be easier to find the book over there, but that’s not the case….

Anyway, it’s definitely worth tracking down. It’s a very solid, basic introduction to flamenco history, aesthetics, and structure, but what makes it particularly valuable is the CD that’s included. It has very good examples of all the major flamenco song forms, and Totton goes into a fair amount of detail in the body of the text, analyzing the various rhythmic/melodic/structural qualities of the music, citing the specific examples. This is REALLY helpful towards being able to understand what flamenco is (or isn’t), how it sounds, how it works. And if you develop an even semi-serious interest in flamenco, you’re gonna quickly find out just how “big” it is, and how much there is to learn, and I think that book/cd can make for a particularly good first step in that direction.

Good luck!

Adam

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 18:53:53

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

Just tried it with guitar. Actually put your capo on 1 to make the F open and your in alegrias. The major7 sounds good as an ending: beats 1 through 7 Gm - beats 8,9 C7 - on the 10 Fmaj7.

Don't wanna confuse you though...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2009 4:07:20

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

With a little alteration of those chords you could play a Zapateado.

Use C, G7 and F

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 7:38:18

greeny

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 26 2008

RE: new to flamenco - trying to make... (in reply to davedave)

F maj7 becomes Am7#5
Gm7 stays Gmin
C7 becomes C11 (fourth in the bass thus Fsus4 - no seventh)
F maj7 (lydian) becomes Bm7b5 which subs for E7b9

So, now you have a flamenco cycle of Amin to Gmin to F to E7... what a sound, how original!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 9:40:55