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Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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 RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Ricardo)
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Yup, ppi just like Ricardo said. There's a version of that falseta on a recording of Juan Villar.
Cepero and Paco have really strong alzapúas but are about the only ones nowadays who haven't completely given up on the p-p-i version. If anyone knows of anyone else who plays this way, please post to let us know.
Like Paco, Cepero's taken it a step further, creating his own peculiar versions of this fingering. Aside from that falseta that's already been mentioned, at 4:03, for example, he doubles up with the index for his variation on this characteristic part of bulerías. Counting with a 12-beat compás, that'd be p-i-i-i in eighth notes: thumb down, index up, index down and index up. Twelve and one and two and three and... Too much for my right hand!
Most of the cantes and letras are standard stuff. The entrada "Me comprometes" is a little weird, but not too far out for bulerías. The "cantarillo" thing at 3:35 was recorded by Cancanilla de Marbella back in the 1970s, but I think he got it from a much older source. I think Camarón's mom used to sing the "molinera" thing at 4:36. You can check it out on Rito y Geografía, Carmen Linares also recorded it on her anthology and there's a great version on Juncales or Cayos Reales or whatever that recording's called, sung by La Piriñaca's daughter, I think. The last cante, "El tío de las castañas," was recorded by El Sevillano on several occasions.
Edit: Vallejo recorded that last cante in 1934.
The harmonized thing at 8:33 in the second video is an idea that Cepero used to play a lot, precisely on Pansequito's recordings. I don't know if he's still doing it today, but he used to play it all the time in the 1970s.
Great video; thanks srshea! Notice how Cepero calls out to Lebrijano at 0:26 and compare it to that video of Camarón, Turronero, Cepero and Paco, where he does almost exactly the same with Camarón (but nearly 20 years earlier), right down to the facial expressions. My favorite is the look of absolute concentration as he waits for Lebrijano to sing at 2:30-2:38. Notice how his eyes follow the singer's head (probably focusing on his mouth).
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Date Jan. 11 2009 10:20:19
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to NormanKliman)
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Thanks for all the eagle-eyed analysis everybody, and thanks for the healthy dose of cante-nerddom, Norman. (By the way, do you have all this stuff in our head available for instant recall, or do have to sit and mull it over for a bit!?)
quote:
ORIGINAL: NormanKliman
p-i-i-i in eighth notes: thumb down, index up, index down and index up. Twelve and one and two and three and...
That description sounds like standard horquilla to me. Is what Cepero’s doing here just a super-fast version?
quote:
Notice how Cepero calls out to Lebrijano at 0:26 and compare it to that video of Camarón
In the Lebrijano vid it sounds like he’s saying “bonito”? In the Rito vid it the first thing he says sounds like “doce” but with the accent on the second syllable (no comprendo), and later on it sounds like he said “Sevilla”?
quote:
My favorite is the look of absolute concentration as he waits for Lebrijano to sing at 2:30-2:38
Nice catch. One of the things I really like about owning the Rito dvds is that you get such a richer viewing experience in the sound and image and all the little subtle details you can see on your TV rather than a crappy little youtube screen. It’s cool that so much of that stuff is out there on the internet, but there’s also plenty of stuff from that series that’s NOT on youtube. They ain’t exactly cheap, but for anyone out there reading this who doesn’t already have it, I can attest that those dvds are worth every penny and absolutely worth owning.
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Date Jan. 11 2009 21:48:05
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)
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quote:
(By the way, do you have all this stuff in our head available for instant recall, or do have to sit and mull it over for a bit!?)
I just make it up as I go along, ha-ha! It's no big deal, really. Question of paying attention to the letras, sometimes I go back to check and realize that I've goofed, and it's often a question of coincidence, of recordings that have stuck in your head for one reason or another. For example, I listened to the Cancanilla recording a lot over a period of a few weeks just because it was what we had in the car. When Cancanilla sings that letra, the guitarist Antonio Arenas lets loose with some kind of exclamation, sounding surprised and impressed. That drew my attention to it, because, otherwise, it's not much of a cante, although the letra fits the cante nicely.
In any case, a very large amount of flamenco consists of versions of things that have been around for a while. That's part of why you so often hear people say "el cante ya está hecho" and things like that (cante has already been created). It doesn't mean that good singers don't invent completely new cantes, but, as Vicente Sordera said, "that's a hard card to play."
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That description sounds like standard horquilla to me. Is what Cepero’s doing here just a super-fast version?
I'm not sure what you mean by horquilla. For me, that term means a kind of arpeggio with simultaneous index-middle or middle-ring strokes. What Cepero does there is basic bulerías index-finger strumming, but thumbing the basses and using the index for every other note, rather than just the off-beat upstrokes (on the "ands"). Uh, that explanation is a little too obvious, so I think I'm not understanding what you mean.
quote:
In the Lebrijano vid it sounds like he’s saying “bonito”? In the Rito vid it the first thing he says sounds like “doce” but with the accent on the second syllable (no comprendo), and later on it sounds like he said “Sevilla”?
I noticed that, too. I don't know, "Juanito"? For Camarón, it's probably "José" but lisping the s. I'll go back and have a listen to both, but that's probably what he's saying.
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Date Jan. 11 2009 22:29:00
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to NormanKliman)
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Hey, Norman.
Well, the horquilla I know I learned from an old Juan Grecos book. Seems to be a bit old-fashioned, and I don’t recall seeing it elsewhere: thumb downstroke on a bass string, and then up, down, up with the index on the trebles, played as four eighth-notes. So, thumb/bass melody and then a kind of loose strumming inbetween. It seems like the same thing Cepero’s doing, but with maybe a difference in emphasis between the bass and trebles?....
Regarding the recall of all the cante connections, however you do it, I’m impressed. The file clerk in your head deserves an Employee of the Month plaque!
Thanks,
Adam
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Date Jan. 11 2009 22:58:38
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)
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Hi Adam,
Had another listen to both videos, and it sounds like "Juanillo" and "José" (no lisp) to me.
Well, that horquilla thing you describe is certainly what Cepero's doing. I've always found it a l-o-t more practical to use either just the index for the whole thing or thumbing the basses and catching the rhythmic counterpoint (upstrokes on the "ands") with the index, or maybe alternating between the two forms, but "the full treatment" is a bit much for me.
About the file clerk, I'm sure you do the same thing with films, for example, if you're into that. I've got friends (some younger than me) who "leave me in the ditch" as they say. Wow, that sounds pretty ugly!  What I mean is that they're a lot better than me at this sort of thing. It also helps to have an elderly friend or family member who's also been at this his/her whole life!!! Another factor involved is how much pleasure one is able to get out of old recordings, because there are a lot of good aficionados out there who don't like old recordings. Their taste doesn't usually coincide with mine, but they might be the ones who are actually playing flamenco today, which does a lot more for the art form than just criticizing everything new and different.
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Date Jan. 11 2009 23:39:22
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to NormanKliman)
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Hi, Norman,
I actually did get into a forensically nerdy discussion about underground film this afternoon, so, yeah, I guess everybody’s got a thang…
The horquilla I mentioned from the Grecos books is used in a farruca falseta. It’s actually really easy and pretty satisfying to play and has a nice folksy/funky feel to it, with an emphasis on those bass notes. But yeah, applying that same technique to some full-speed bulerias? I’ll leave that to the experts, thank you very much!
So, “Juanillo” as just an affectionate little nickname? Hmn.
Thanks again,
Adam
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Date Jan. 11 2009 23:55:41
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Ricardo
Posts: 14875
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: srshea
Hi, Norman,
I actually did get into a forensically nerdy discussion about underground film this afternoon, so, yeah, I guess everybody’s got a thang…
The horquilla I mentioned from the Grecos books is used in a farruca falseta. It’s actually really easy and pretty satisfying to play and has a nice folksy/funky feel to it, with an emphasis on those bass notes. But yeah, applying that same technique to some full-speed bulerias? I’ll leave that to the experts, thank you very much!
So, “Juanillo” as just an affectionate little nickname? Hmn.
Thanks again,
Adam
Terms get tossed around, but horquilla as I learned is as Norman described. A sort of "lazy" arpegio, where you use thumb, a and m together, and i. Nino Ricardo does it all the time. check his only solea vid.
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Date Jan. 13 2009 12:45:54
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
where you use thumb, a and m together, and i
hi ricardo, do you mean thumb plays at same time as a and m together, and then i plays; or do you mean thumb plays, then a and m together, then i?
paco uses p, am, i quite a bit in some of his earlier stuff i've looked at (haven't got onto his later stuff... yet!) and also uses p, i, i, i (where the i strokes are up, down, up)....
....but i thought "horquilla" was when you play p together with m, and then i, as used a lot in older type granaina and taranta....
is there/are there definitive definitions for these 3 techniques? or are they all variants of "horquilla"?
ps total respect to you for being practically buddha like and saintly in some of some of the other threads lately... i'm sure you know which ones i mean!
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Date Jan. 14 2009 5:02:24
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
Personally I dont really need a name for everything
me neither, nice to know what some of the things i do are called tho'!
quote:
Even the term "arpegio" can mean different things.
yeah, i thought the p, am, i, thing was just a triplet arpegio, i use it in a few things, a paco siguiriya falseta i play, and i first learnt it in an old buleria falseta from pepe martinez. if a dancer does triplets in alegrias footwork i usually use that technique to play triplet arpegios, with the usual escobilla bassline variations, then if they go into 16ths i play p, a, m, i, arpegio using the same notes on the same top three strings....
any idea what that pm, i, thing i thought was "horquilla" is called? paco uses it in the rito y geografia rondena for example
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Date Jan. 14 2009 11:15:41
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(at 120 ish) The tone of the d string changes on the 3rd note of the triplet more metalic .
