Differences in woods.

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Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

Differences in woods.

So I went to a luthier's shop with a fellow forum member, and based on his budget, they had initially decided on Canadian cypress for the body.

At the shop, the luthier tried to up-sell him to a more expensive Spanish cypress.

Of course, Spanish cypress should be more expensive because of the shipping and the fact that Spain has fewer trees than Canada.

But, comparing your local cypress to Spanish cypress, how much more would you guess it should cost?

And, really, how much of a difference should it make to the guitar itself?

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2009 16:43:42

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

Its a very difficult question because its not based on anything reasonable but on market economy. Why does a very nice piece of East Indian Rosewood cost 50,-€ and a very lousy piece of most probably fake Braz rosewood cost 500,-€?????

There´s nothing inferior in Canadian Cypress/Alaska yellow Cedar. It sounds very good, the wood has a very high quality and its very stable. The only real reason that its considered inferior is because its not from flamenco mother country Spain. But to this I will add, that Spanish Cypress more or less is non existant. It should be called Mediterranea Cpress and what you get is most probably from Turqey, maybe Tunesia or somewhere else.

Being in Canada and on budget, buying from a local builder.... Canadian wood is great tonewood.

How much the price difference should be? choose yourself. There are no rules in market economy.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 0:13:22

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao

So I went to a luthier's shop with a fellow forum member, and based on his budget, they had initially decided on Canadian cypress for the body.

At the shop, the luthier tried to up-sell him to a more expensive Spanish cypress.

Of course, Spanish cypress should be more expensive because of the shipping and the fact that Spain has fewer trees than Canada.

But, comparing your local cypress to Spanish cypress, how much more would you guess it should cost?

And, really, how much of a difference should it make to the guitar itself?

So the luthier pays $65/set for Cypress and $35/set for Alaskan Yellow Cedar. The cypress guitar should cost no more than $30 extra. I'd say Cypress is a little easier to work since it's easier to mill so that should pretty much offset the extra cost. I can't figure out why any luthier would even offer Alaskan Yellow Cedar as an option unless he just likes the yellow color or lack of grain lines. Anders and I have had completely different experiences with Alaskan Yellow Cedar. None of it that I've seen would qualify as a tone wood.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 6:16:36

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

Are you saying Canadian cypress is Alaskan yellow cedar? Even if it's true, Canadian trees don't like being called American...

The choice was between Canadian and Spanish cypress.

Looking at the naked woods, my eye could only discern a small difference in colour and grain, that might have been no different had they been from different trees of the same material (of course I didn't get a chance to look very close or for very long with multiple sample of both kinds, so I can't judge too well, hence the questions...)

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 8:46:51

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

Yes, its the same tree. Funny enough its not even a real cyprees or a real Cedar. Its one of these trees which have been moved around from one category to another.

The smell of the two is very different and they both have a strong smell especially when bended. The Med. Cypress is aromatic and by far my favorite would smell. The smell of CDN Cypress was once said to be the "the smell of the pocket of an old hippie coat where the owner had forgotten a joint"

John why dont you consider it to be worthy as a tonewood? I think it makes very nice sounding Blancas. I have just ordered some.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 9:02:19

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

Hmmm... I didn't take the time to sniff the product. It hadn't occurred to me that the things I would do at a drug buy also apply to the luthier's shop.

If what you say about the scent is true, then I think that alone would merit the 'upgrade'. I love the smell of my guitar The thought of replacing it for the scent of old dessicated homegrown makes me shudder. (Of course, in deference to all the Canadian tokers, I'm talking about real hippies and homegrown before hydroponics came and made everything smell like skunk.)

I think this local luthier uses it because it's local and far cheaper than the imported Spanish or Mediterranean Cypress, but looks similar enough.

This is a luthier who will still make a guitar for around $1,700 for a budget minded person. (Budget being the reason Anders isn't building this guitar

)

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 9:44:19

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

I'm talking about real hippies and homegrown

You got it... Thats the smell we are talking about

Good luck with the project

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 10:05:13

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

LOL, it's not my project. I was just there as an observer and it raised some questions.

Thanks for the info!

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 10:47:05

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

John why dont you consider it to be worthy as a tonewood? I think it makes very nice sounding Blancas. I have just ordered some.

I used it extensively when I first started building because I hadn't yet found a good source for cypress (and of course because I was virtually pennyless

). I makes an attractive guitar but the tap tone on all of it I've ever seen or owned was awful, about the same sonority as balsa. I have a couple of big billets of AYC which I take little slices off when I need some. It's nice for some applications since it bends across the grain without breaking but I wouldn't even consider it for a guitar. Red cedar makes much better back and sides although it's a little hard to bend.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 11:47:07

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Differences in woods. (in reply to Exitao)

I agree that the taptone is rather dead, but the guitar I made for Simon with CDN Cypress has a very nice ring to it and its very flamenco, so I consider it to be very nice. Besides the structural quality of it is very high and the quality of Med. Cypress is getting poor